custom NASCAR rear swaybars?

[zooracer]

I have a FWD swift with a later model rear swaybar of 19mm. The front one was removed.
I'm in need of a big adjustable bar for the rear, and it was suggested by John at Baucom motorsports that I look into a rear bar used by the nascar guys. It is a big straight bar with splined ends, then different sized end peices for adjustability.
John said he could fit it to my car.
Anyone with experience with these and any idea where to find one, maybe used?

[Greg Amy]

It's not a bolt-on affair; you've got to fabricate:

http://www.kakashiracing.com/swaybar.html

I used parts from Speedway Engineering, specifically:

http://www.1speedway.com/Swaybars.htm

Rotates nicely...

[zooracer]

excellent, thank you, and john will be the one fitting it to the car...
One more quick question (rather then starting up a new topic). I bought some redline lightweight shockproof for my tranny in the hopes that the additives would help my "phantom slip" work better. I was running mobil one 75-90w...
Do you think it will make a difference?
I wont bother doing it before the race if it wont, and instead save the bottles for my new tranny/LSD in a couple of months.
matt

[racer_tim]

Matt, you only need a big rear bar if you go with a LSD. I run a locked front diff in my FWD Wabbit, and use a large front bar, and a 19mm standard aftermarket rear bar.

The diving style with a locker is different with a LSD, so the setup of the suspension is also different.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[zooracer]

hey tim, I had actually planned on going with the OPM LSD. I spoke with lots of people and was advised against it. I was told about the huge amount of push and other problems.
I know I had heard of people like chris albin who run it and do well, but I never actually spoke with him.
It'll be about a grand after all is said and done (maybe more), but I guess if I want to win, thats what I have to do.
It was a hard decision...
Perhaps after trying it, if it doesnt work well, I will try a welded...
On the other hand, running a welded would also apparently save me money on a rear sway bar, which after fitment would prolly cost about 400 or so...
hmmmmm.
matt

[grjones1]

[quote]

Matt,
Most FWD racers I know run large rear bars and smaller front bars (if any) regardless of whether the diff is welded, Quaife-style, or clutch. (That gets rid of a great deal of your FWD understeer.) And no disrespect for Tim but I'll bet he's running 1000-lb. front springs (and God knows what rate in the rear in his Prod car. Get in touch with Saner in Florida, they'll help you.
GRJ

[zooracer]

yes, I was a little thrown by the fact that he wasnt running a big rear bar.
I'm running 350# front springs and 600# rear, on a 1795lb car.
I figured with a welded diff you would need even more oversteer, as they really tend to push? I had heard the driving style was where you throw it into the corner with foot off gas, as the rear comes around, point wheel to apex and floor it?

So, does anyone think running redline shocker in the diff will make any difference on my phantom grip. Should I bother?

[grjones1]

Originally posted by zooracer:

I'm running 350# front springs and 600# rear, on a 1795lb car.

Matt,
Others are more expert than I, but again, with front drive you want those heavy rate springs in the front with equal or less rate in the rear. [All your weight is at the front of the car (65-35, I'll bet). I think you've got it backwards. Talk also to Ground Control, they sure helped with my Fiesta, also >1800 lbs. We've got it about as balanced as a short wheel-based FWD can get.

And yes you accelerate to pull the car out of the drift if you're not in too hot. But again I try to accelerate slightly before or at the apex, almost the same as with rear wheel. Seems to work. Of course I'm an old codger and do it "traditionally: slow in fast out." Even with front drive. Don't get too wrapped up in the FWD/RWD difference - the rear wheels still have to follow the fronts. If I'm making any sense?

GRJ

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited February 16, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited February 16, 2005).]

[racer_tim]

GRJ and Matt, no disrespect, but I'm NOT running 1,000 lbs springs in the front. I'm running 500 Lbs in the front and 350 lbs in the rear. I have thought about going a little higher in the rear, but haven't done it yet. BTW, "traditionally: slow in fast out." works for me.

With my setup, you brake in a straight line, grab the appropriate gear, dump the clutch, turn in, and mash the loud pedal.

That might sound a bit "harsh" but it works for me. My GP car has the same suspension as when I ran it in ITB, except for raising the front ball joints about 3/4" to get the control arms "level" after lowering the car. The 20" slicks make my 3.94 R&P act like something much higher, but other than a hotter cam, 16v pistons, and removal of stuff to get down to 1,965lbs, my Wabbit is IT legal.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[grjones1]

Originally posted by racer_tim:

Hey Tim,
It was the heavy sway bar in the front that led me to believe you might be using heavier springs. Whatever works for you guy. I'm sure your Wabbit would rip my Fiesta. Good luck this year.

GRJ

[joeg]

Just remember guys that when your throwing out spring rates for the rear (FWD to FWD comparisons) you are doing a disservice to the person with the initial question if you are not looking at the design of the rear suspension (beam, IRS, IRS inboard, IRS outboard, etc) in order to determine "wheel rates" of your car.

For example, my 1000lb rear springs work out to a 450 wheel rate.

Cheers.

[zooracer]

yes, sorry to lead you astray buy my rear's are mounted inboard, so much lower then true 600#
But, my real question was answered about swaybars, thx
Tim, if your welded works for you, maybe I should go back to considering them. So much cheaper...
Curious that your not running a bigger swaybar or stiffer rear springs. And leaving your front swaybar on...
Maybe this is the hot setup for welded diff's?
matt

[racer_tim]

Matt, you also might want to check with Chris Albin, since I believe that he also runs a locker up front.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">For example, my 1000lb rear springs work out to a 450 wheel rate.</font>

Good point. My rear 1200# rear springs worked out to about, like, 1150 pounds (damn near 1:1 motion ratio...)

[zooracer]

yes, chris albin does run a locker, and he seems to be pretty fast. Usually places pretty well at the runoffs.
I will look into it some more.
matt

[zooracer]

Hey Tim, I did email J. Goodale, who places in the top ten at the runoffs in GP with a swift. He runs a welded diff with stock swaybars all around. Said the welded removed all the push in the car (he was running a phantom grip before).
He runs a gripper LSD from england now, but doesnt think it gave him any time.
So, I think I will try the same route and see what happens.
Let you know the result
matt

[zooracer]

just quickly for FYI,
found out woody deatherage, ran in top three at runoffs before crashing, runs a welded with stock front and rear bars.
Sounds like welded is the way to go.
matt

[ShelbyRacer]

At least it'll be consistent...

------------------
Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[zooracer]

yes, although I have to admit I'm still a little nervous about doing it with all the hoopla I've heard about how it will screw up your handling...
But if really, really, fast guys with MY model car are using it...
must be right!
matt

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">But if really, really, fast guys with MY model car are using it...must be right!</font>

It's mindsets like this that allowed folks like Penske and Yunick to show up and clean everyone's clocks...bottom line, just 'cause the "fast" guys are doing it, that don't mean it's the FASTEST they can possibly be...