SM Ballast (hidden)

[Jay Wright]

Ballast added in the roll cage main hoop and called "master kill switch plate" has been ruled illegal by SCCA appeals court. In SowDiv we have ruled the plate can be no larger than 4 x 6 x 3/16 inches.

[dave parker]

Jay
I am trying to figure out what the signifigance is with this on the Improved Touring website.
Since the Spec Miata guys have made it very clear that their rules are not based on the ITCS.

If I am missing part of the picture please enlighten me.
cheers
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

[Speed Raycer]

Seems to me that the ruling could lead to a maximum plate thickness for other areas of the cage as well. No more free placement of ballast in the cage with 3/4" thick pads.

I personally think that its a BS rule, but I never saw the plate in question... If it was a 6" long x 2" thick piece of steel tack welded in 2 spots then that's a safety issue, but does there need to be a rule on it?

------------------
Scott Rhea
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it

Izzy's Custom Cages

[JohnRW]

I just thought it was a 'Jeopardy' answer, looking for the appropriate question.

Where is Alex Trebek ?

[JohnRW]

And the question is:

"Show us an example of 'Forum Lexdixia'"

http://www.specmiata.com/ubb/ultimatebb.ph...pic/2/2380.html

[apr67]

The animosity here, sheesh.

Anway, the point that IT racers might want to consider is it would be just as illegal in an IT car. At least that is how I read it, as this was an allowed part (switch) performing a non-allowed purpose (ballast).

But we don't have any specifics. Are the plates 4" x 4" by 4"? And if so, is their any question if that is just asking for trouble?

[BMW RACER]

I don't have my book handy (Another way of saying I'm too lazy to look it up) But isn't there already a rule about items doing something illegal under the gise of being something legal? Like the old 5 pound "fuel pump bracket"

[Greg Amy]

The problem with these kinds of decisions is determining intent. Just about any allowed modification can perform an unintended function; the key is determining how aggregious that unintended function is alongside the intent. Some call it clever, some call it cheating; I say tomayto, you say tomahto.

I don't necessarily agree with the appeals decision (it's an inverse-Pandora's box that we probably don't want to get to) but I understand the ruling.

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by GregAmy:
The problem with these kinds of decisions is determining intent. Just about any allowed modification can perform an unintended function

X-Zachery.

The poster child of this issue: Tow hooks.

Tow hooks need to be strong. They're there for yanking the car around, right ? Soooo...anyone with half a brain can put 15-20 lbs. of steel where it will do the most good. Who's to say it isn't necessary ? Prove it.

APR67 - Animosity ? Hardly. Confusion, based on a lack of context, maybe. Not animosity.

[Jay Wright]

The rules apply across the board. I am responsible in SowDiv for the SM class. If you don't like the rules write the competition board and have the rules changed. [email protected]. We enforce the rules and are trying to get the class ready to go national next year. The only complaints here are from the people who have put hidden ballast throughout their cars. The people with legal cars don't complain.

[oanglade]

Jay, I realize that you simply copied and pasted your last post here from what you posted on SM.com, but you are saying that people here on IT.com are complaining about this and that they have illegal cars. I don't think either of these statements can be concluded from this thread.

Maybe you want to be more aware of the target audience.



------------------
Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA

[Bill Miller]

Why did I click on that link???!!!!

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[apr67]

Not to speak for Jay, but connect the dots.

Would this be legal in IT? I don't think so, it voilates the same rule (an allowed can't perform the function of a disallowed mod).

So the fact that some SM's had this done means it is possible that:

Some IT cars may have seen it, thought it was a cool idea, and done the same.

OR

Some IT cars had it first and the SM guys copied it.

Regardless, its something that I would think drivers would want to be aware of.

Prehaps not.

[VWPartsGuy]

Hell, I can hide ballast better than tacking it high up on the rollcage as a kill switch bracket

------------------
Thomas Benham

[badal]

Originally posted by Jay Wright:
The rules apply across the board. I am responsible in SowDiv for the SM class. If you don't like the rules write the competition board and have the rules changed. [email protected]. We enforce the rules and are trying to get the class ready to go national next year. The only complaints here are from the people who have put hidden ballast throughout their cars. The people with legal cars don't complain.

What rule are you enforcing? There is no such rule in my rulebook.



------------------
"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series

[Jay Wright]

You run SCCA, you run their rules.

[apr67]

Al. You might want to look closer.

Ballast is not legal, and you can not use an allowed modification to perform a disallowed mod.

[badal]

So if I choose to build my cage with tubing larger than the minimum spec, is that illegal? It also performs the function of adding weight.

What if my fire extinguisher is larger than the minimum size-illegal too?

------------------
"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series

[apr67]

Al, we all choose to race with the rules that exist. Shooting the messenger isn't going to change the rules.

Writing letters might.

[Knestis]

Even the rules NERD is with Al and Greg on this one. If the "prohibited function" is simply haveing mass, there's no way in hell that some arbitrary degree of indiscretion on this front can be decided to be illegal, when a gram less might not be.

If an inch-thick bracket is overkill, is 1/2" okay? 1/4? .060? Do we need to do a load analysis to demonstrate that we have built it right at Colin Chapman's idea of the minimum size necessary to keep said part from falling off? Or falling off for a while?

There is NO way to enforce this kind of approach that doesn't leave individuals with too much discretion to decide when enough is enough.

Now, if I fill the downtubes at the back of my cage with lead shot, there's no defensible basis so the math is easy. An ITC entrant in my old region had a flywheel and a big ol' pile of discarded wheel weights in his passenger door, behind the door card. Loose.

Now, THAT is ballast (hidden)

K


[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited March 18, 2005).]