"Total Seal" Piston Rings = Snake Oil or not??

[Jon Nelson]

I've been looking at using these in my next engine build. I know quite a few people use and recommend these, including the legendary David Vizard.....

Anyone have any comments based on actual experience??

Seems to me if they were such a great idea, my Honda would have come from the factory with them, but it's hard to ignore the 0% leakdown argument.

Thanks,

Jon

[MMiskoe]

I've used them & found that they do produce high numbers on leak down tests, but when I talk to guys who build high end race motors they don't use them.

I have heard of them breaking, but I have not had that problem, they have been very reliable.

[BMW RACER]

I used to use them on my 2002 motors, never had any problems and the motors always seem to run well. Then again I was chatting with a respected engine builder one time who said. How long is the piston ring? Piston circumferance, probably about 8". How much ring gap .010"- .012" That's a pretty small gap in a ring that long, Will it really leak that much? So I don't know, I think if I could get them I'd use them, if not I wouldn't loose any sleep.

[apr67]

I've seen It motors with 50 weekends with less than 1% leakdown using total seals.

Total seals aren't much better when new. They kick but when worn.

BTW, your honda came with a lot of crappy parts from the factory. They make them cheap!

[gran racing]

Crappy Honda engine parts? I'm not so sure I agree with you there. Just curious, like what?

------------------
Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[ShelbyRacer]

I've used them with success. Just make sure you follow the recommendations for surface finish of the cylinders.

BTW- They melt just nicely at about the same rate as a forged piston (too much boost, not enough fuel)...



------------------
Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[joeg]

I have used them in various competition vehicles for over 20 years.

The reason I use them is that the company will fit any size you want. I use "Filed-to fits" because you need that for ant re-hone and even on a fresh build.

If you have a fresh regular styled ring that gaps correctly, they frankly do not offer any performance advantage. They also do tend to wear the bores a bit more than gapped rings.

Overall, I do recommend them, especially if you need a specially sized ring.

Cheers.

[apr67]

I can tell you that my wifes honda civic ate a distributor at 4 years old (and 30k miles).

Seems pretty crappy to me.

And the threads about the crappy solder on Honda main realys seems legendary.

[Bildon]

It's "Snake Oil"

The air in the gap of a properly gapped set of "normal" rings goes super-sonic which prevents compression waves passing through the gap.

That doesn't mean they are not excellent rings. And of course, static leak down will be better, but perhaps misleading?

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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment

[This message has been edited by Bildon (edited February 24, 2005).]

[apr67]

But.

As the rings wear those gaps open on standard rings.

On total seals, they don't.

Its longevity, not peak power IMHO.

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by BMW RACER:
How much ring gap .010"- .012" That's a pretty small gap in a ring that long, Will it really leak that much? So I don't know, I think if I could get them I'd use them, if not I wouldn't loose any sleep.

It sure doesn't take much of a gap in a bent valve to mess up your weekend, especially at the pressures we are talking about...



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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX

[Spinnetti]

I don't have any scientific opinion, but I have used them for over 10 years in my race car, and my engine has worked very well. My builder also recommended them, and I trust his professional opinion as well.

That being said, they may not offer any real advantage, but you never know..

I've been reading some design engineering books, and the loss from ring friction is much more important that leakdown. Its better for racing to have rings that leak some but have lower ring tension than the other way around.