Metric AN fastener source?

[Joe Harlan]

That is exactly how AN fasteners are spec'd. The threaded length of an AN bolt is a constant for a bolt of a given diameter.

You simply specify the grip length (unthreaded portion).

Sorry yeah, I stock a lot on AN hardware.. I was meaning Metric bolts with short threads and different grip lengths.


Dawg, be sure to have the bigends resized even when you use new bolts. Keeping the rod round and in spec is the key to a happy engine.

[Quickshoe]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan:
[BI was meaning Metric bolts with short threads and different grip lengths.[/B]

Just had a need to further my plumbing education. Consulted one of the Good Books and came across:

"Metrics. The best source I've found is Metrics Inc., 410 S. Varney St. Burbank, CA 90052."<snip>"If you need aerospace quality in metric fasteners you are in big trouble unless you happen to know someone who works for Matra or Aerospaziale."

Those quotes are from Engineer to Win. Who knows the Burbank address could be a mini-mall now. Maybe a little time searching the web and you might score.

What kind of hardware do German and Japanese built aircraft use?

[Greg Amy]

Japanese aircraft? Not too many of those around in this country, except for the few we got to see in dubya-dubya two. For the most part Japan buys NATO airplanes for defense and both US and Euro airplanes for commercial. I do recall that Honda is investigating a joint venture with GE to produce a aircraft turbine, and another venture with Teledyne/Continental to enter the piston engine market, and Toyota built and got approved the Lexus-based V8 engine for light aircraft use. Rumor is also strong that Honda is going to pursue a small 4- to 6-passenger personal jet, but nothing is firmed up.

There are a few light airplanes from Germany, such as Aerospatiale and/or Socata, but they have merged with EADS to become EADS/Socata. Other than these few, for the most part Europe also flies US-built light airplanes. In the defense and commerical arena, you're no doubt aware of consortium aircraft such as EADS (Airbus for commercial, Eurocopter for rotary, Eurofighter and A400M for defense), and Fokker and ATR (French/EADS) come to mind in bizjets and light regional jets. Given these are European consortium, they are likely all using standard metric hardware.

I don't know for a fact, but any country's aircraft industry is likely using the same standards as in their cars. Common country, common fasteners. Germans use "standard" metric in their cars, Japanese use JIS (finer threads).

I suppose you could always call your local big airport and find someone that is equipped to service and repair Airbus. They'd certainly know what fasteners are used and may considering selling you a limited amount. But you better plan on spreading your cheeks...

[joeg]

Just go buy this month's RACECAR ENGINEERING.

In the back (and throughout the magazine) are lists and ads of all kinds of vendors in the motorsports industry--including fasteners.

I gotta agree with Greg--be prepared for price shock.

Actually, some of those vendors and their products are so high class and expensive that they may exceed mil-spec and/or aerospace specs.

Cheers.

[gsbaker]

RCE is good, but most of the references will be to foreign sources given that it is published in England. Definitely race oriented though, so a good place to start.

If you want to go really high end for the domestic aerospace suppliers contact a manufacturer and ask if they have a local distributor. Here is a good one:

http://www.alcoa.com/fastening_systems/aer...ace/en/home.asp

See the PDF catalog for bolts and screws.

Most of this stuff is mouth-watering. Anyone for titanium alloy hydraulic fittings?

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[HounDawg]

Here's an update from Smith's "Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook," published in 1990 ("Prepare to Win" was published in 1975):

"It used to be that if we needed aerospace quality in a metric fastener we were in deep trouble, unless you knew someone at a European aerospace company like Dassault, Matra, or Aerospaziale. Today we are still in trouble, but not as deeply. The need for metric-sized fasteners has extended to the aerospace industry. The National Aerospace Standards Committee of the Aerospace Industries Association of America has adopted a set of standards for metric fasteners designated NA Metric...
"Even though our domestic auto industry now uses (very quietly) quite a few metric fasteners, and aerospace has written metric standards for threaded fasteners, it isn't easy to find metric hardware let alone GOOD metric hardware. the best sources are Global Metrics, Metric and Multistandard Components Corp (http://www.metricmcc.com/metric.htm - office in Atlanta) and Metrics Specialties Inc."

[badal]

Originally posted by HounDawg:
Looks like you're right. I checked "How to modify your Nissan/Datsun OHC Engine" by Frank Honsowetz. The 240Z L24 engine had 8mm rod bolts up to 4/71, then they had 9mm bolts. I have a '72, so I'm pretty sure I don't have to upgrade the bolts. That's great, since it will save me a little machine shop expense. To quote Honsowetz "The stock rod bolt is the weakest link in the Nissan/Datsun L-series rod.
Too bad for those of you who were ready to protest...John Williams. Looks like his 9mm rod bolts are legal.

Off topic I know, but:
The 8 mm and 9 mm rods are different. The 9's are heavier. 8's are fine for IT cars, but use the ARP bolts. And have them resized as suggested above. Machining an 8 mm rod for a 9mm bolt would not be legal IMHO, and could weaken the rod.

------------------
"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series

[HounDawg]

Again, you guys on this forum are so smart! Yes, as I read it, it would be illegal to update the rod bolts from 8mm to 9mm--the only legal method would be to update the entire long block from a pre-4/71 to a post-4/71.
Although Honsowetz's book says the L24's rod bolts are the engine's weakest link (and it's the ONLY part on the engine that has ever failed me), I do agree that it's best to just get the ARP bolts. I assume the rule 17.1.4.D.1.o (Hardware items may be replaced with similar items performing the same fastening function(s)) is the rule which authorizes the ARP bolts to be used?

Originally posted by badal:

Off topic I know, but:
The 8 mm and 9 mm rods are different. The 9's are heavier. 8's are fine for IT cars, but use the ARP bolts. And have them resized as suggested above. Machining an 8 mm rod for a 9mm bolt would not be legal IMHO, and could weaken the rod.