Latch and Link, Camlock, Graco?

[Jake]

I really wish that a harness manufacturer would implement the technology of my baby's 5-point harness. Basically, picture a camlock where the left lap and sholder are connected at the ends, right lap and shoulder are connected at the ends, and the cam mechanism is part of the sub belt. Getting baby strapped in is just two clicks and requires no adjustment. Can anyone tell me why this wouldn't make a great racing harness?!?! I realize you would have to fish your arms out of the straps, but that is not any different than you do in a normal 3pt belt - i.e. very easy.

[lateapex911]

I'm sure it's a desire to have zero impedance in the event of a panic/on fire bail when blinded due to smoke and flames...

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Greg Amy]

Like, pulling a baby out of a wrecked vehicle is not a panicky event...?

I'm with ya, Jake. (You OK? Been awful quiet lately...)

[lateapex911]

I'm hanging in here!

But.......pulling a baby out of a burning car IS a bit different...first, it's a two person operation...the baby isn't in charge. Second, the baby is coming out of a much larger area, vs a full sized driver in a caged car, AND the baby is as flexible as a noodle!

Just a thought...



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[ddewhurst]

Jake, you answered your own question.

Question:

***Can anyone tell me why this wouldn't make a great racing harness?!?!***

Answer:

I realize you would have to fish your arms out of the straps,***

While you were FISHING & the FIRE caugh up to you it would be very understandable why a driver should not need to go FISHING.

Hijack: (to all excepr Kirk) To my thought process the fact that the hand held fire extinguisher is still allowed is CRIMINAL.

Have Fun
David

[Jake]

I guess Schroth sorta does this with their street belts, but IMHO a stock 3pt belt is safer than a 4-pt w/o a sub belt. Those things creep right up on ya.

[Knestis]

We had a Luke harness that worked exactly that way, in our enduro RX7 back in the ESCORT days - just like the one in the pic but with a proper camlock buckle.

It was no harder to get out of than any other harness that I've ever used.

K

PS - that car had a fire system.

[ddewhurst]

***It was no harder to get out of than any other harness that I've ever used.***

Kirk, do you have a serious bone in your body ? Are you trying to stretch my chain ?

Are you telling everyone who is reading this post that it's just as easy to get out of this set of Schroth fishing belts shown above as it is to get out of a Simpson 5/6 point cam lock set of belts ?

Kirk, don't ya think that if the above belts were "EQUAL" their description would be included within the drivers restraint system written within GCR rule 20. Drivers Restraint System.

Have Fun
David

ps: Kirk, if you install the above Schroth photoed belts in YOUR car that YOU enter with YOU as the driver please let me know which SCCA event you enter.

[gran racing]

By far the most important thing is how quickly we can get out of the harness. I would be more then willing to sacrifice an extra minute putting the belts on while grid for 10 seconds in a panic situation.

But if we could get both, that would be great.

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[Knestis]

I would never challenge Mr. D's chain-pulling title belt.

I was merely saying that in my firsthand, personal experience with a harness of that design, I never had trouble getting in or OUT of them quickly. Heck - this was in the only racing car that I ever actually crashed and even perched on top of a tire wall, I managed to bail out even in my befuddled condition.

We chose them specifically because Luke designed them for endurance racing. They were called the "LeMans," I think? and had the shoulders sewn to the laps like the Schroths - ableit with a proper turnbuckle release.

Now, would it take a couple of seconds longer in theory to pull one's arms out? Sure. Would those be mighty long seconds if one was on fire? Sure as hell.

I used to be in the safety equipment biz so I know a little about this stuff but the most IMPORTANT issue here is that every decision about safety equipment is ALWAYS a compromise.

We have to each make our own decisions about how that math works out best for us and blanket statements about what is "good" or "bad" don't do anything to further reasonable consideration of the factors.

K

[ddewhurst]

***Now, would it take a couple of seconds longer in theory to pull one's arms out? Sure. Would those be mighty long seconds if one was on fire? Sure as hell.***

Thanks Kirk, we agree.
David