Headers: ceramic coating? Wrapping?

[Jake]

I've been considering getting a header for my ITA MR2, and have been looking for a 4:1 header. The only one that is available that isn't cu$tom made is made by pacesetter for the Corolla. Good news is it is dirt cheap.

Here's the question - I can get it for $140 or $100 more for their Armor ceramic coating. Should I bother? Any effect on performance or underhood temps? Or should I just wrap it to keep the underhood temps down. The header runs close to the starter - so temps are a concern to me.

Here's what they are offering: "ARMOR*Coat, a polished, 2000 degree F metallic-ceramic coating. Each header undergoes an extensive perparation phase followed by two applications of the coating and a high-temp curing process. The ARMOR*Coat won't discolor like paint, chrome or dull finish coating, reduces underhood temperatures, resists rust and corrosion and is easy to keep clean."

I coudn't care less about how it looks, so if this is just so it's pretty - I'll get them uncoated.

Thanks!

[joeg]

Jake--I would opt for the ceramic coating because it will extend the life of the header--slows corrosion.

Forget the wrap. My experience is that it traps moisture and shortens header life by giving corrosion a better atmosphere to work in!

It does reduce heat better than the coating, but I prefer that a part last a long tiome.

Regards.

[R2 Racing]

when I got my new "pimpy" header for my ITA Integra I first ordered it with no coating - they wanted like $150 to do it. I ran I think two events on it with no coating before deciding to send it out. I got it coated inside and out and I think it did wonders. The under hood temps really did decrease. Also, my header just dumps into a 2.5" exhaust with a Thrush tube to "take the edge off". If you know, the Thrush comes painted red and usually that red painting will stay pretty well kept. However, after I had my header coated, the paint on the Thrush started baking, turning black, chipping off, etc. You can definately tell that the heats being taken through the exhaust and not into the engine bay.

I'd never do the header wrap bacuase it just accelerates the breakdown of the metal. The wrap only wraps the outside of the header so the heat still gets into the metal but has no where to go - that greatly reduces the life of your header. The ceramic is inside and out so you don't get this problem.

[HBennett]

The header wrap will definitely shorten the life of the header. Go with the coating.

Howard

[924Guy]

I also have a bad header/starter issue in the '24. My car ate starters - we finally just gave up trying to start it when hot. I had a nice MSDS header with the ceramic coating from second season onward. While it may have reduced temps vs an uncoated header, it wasn't enough.

I finally (this year) wrapped the header. In doing so, we went the extra mile to make sure it was done properly; my fabricator (who worked for Roush) wrapped the header properly, did a PERFECT job of it, very clean, snug and tight, then I hosed it down with the coating that the manufacturer sells to protect and seal the wrap.

Since doing this (and yet another starter), I have had no problems with starter failure. The engine is cooling very well, but I've also added a larger oil cooler, so that doesn't hurt. I can't comment on header life, but after spending three years fighting with dead starters... I don't frickin' care!!! If I have to put on a new header in 10 years due to rot... well, it'll be mangled from excessive curbing by then anyway.

I can state a few other observations. The coating on the wrap smoked very toxic when I ran the car, thought it was an electrical fire at first. Very nasty, do in a very well ventilated place... preferably the middle of a pasture right before a hurricane hits. Evil. My fabricator also noted that the ceramic coating was virtually bulletproof, hard to even grind off to weld the header.

I am looking forward to re-wrapping the header this winter; I have to remove it and re-weld EGT bungs (wrong size), and I've shredded the lower wrap on the curbs at Mid-O anyway...

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Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITA/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

[Geo]

Get the header uncoated. Don't bother with their coating. Don't bother with header wrap.

Send the header to Swain Tech.

http://www.swaintech.com

Most ceramic coatings are little more than high temp paint. The Swain Tech coating is a thick coating that is a true thermal barrier. It's far more effective than the usual header coatings. It comes in white, but believe it or not it's paintable. It's a rough coating as well. If you want pretty, get another one.

My Infiniti G20 had a header with a conventional coating when it was NA. When I installed a turbo engine I had the exhaust manifold, turbine housing, and J-pipe all coated with Swain's White Lightning. The under hood temps with the turbo engine were noticeably lower with the turbo engine with coatins than NA with the conventionally coated header.

Swain has a client that uses underground locomotives. They had to lower the external temp of the exhaust manifolds from 925*F to 425*F. The conventional coaters could only get to around 725*F. They then called Swain. First try they got 475*F. With a little thicker application they hit 425*F.

You'll pay a little more for the Swain coating (but it doesn't sound like that much more), but it's the most effective you'll find.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[cherokee]

I do have a cu$tom header on my 85 MR2, and let me tell you about my life. Rap the header. Yes it traps in moisture but how often is it going to get wet, how often do you use the car...we are not talking street cars here. If you want to change the wrapping there is a good winter project The MR2 is very different in the way EVERYTHING is in there. You want to keep the under "hood" temps down as much as possible. The way the pipes have to exit the car leave very little wiggle room, My application ran very close to the oil pan and Norm (MR. MR2 as far as I am conserned) suggested I rap the header as it run right under a main. That is good enough for me. He was on this site quite some time ago as ITAMR2 but I have not talked to him in over a year.

[Tom Donnelly]

I already know the answer, but I'm still gonna ask. The swaintech coating is only legal for the header, right?

What about brake calipers?

Tom

(And has anyone gone as far as using header wrap on a coated header? Or used a coating inside the header to smooth it out?)

[This message has been edited by Tom Donnelly (edited October 07, 2004).]

[Greg Gauper]

I have not, but on the FF & FC websites they have discussed this at great length. The coating on the inside is not there to 'smooth' the flow but rather to keep the heat in the exhaust gas and not transfer it to the header, to improve scavaging AND to reduce underhood temps.

Kevins description above shows the effect of this....since the gas is hotter when it leaves the header, it was hot enough to burn the paint on his muffler, where as before he coated the header, most of the exhaust heat went into the header and the gas cooled considerably before it got to the muffler.

[dyoungre]

Why would you want to coat a brake caliper with insulating material - wouldn't that keep the heat IN the caliper and boil your fluid???

You surely couldn't insulate the piston side....
Better question (though not necessarily cost effective) - has anyone either coated the backside of their brake PADS, or coated spacers to reduce the heat to the brake fluid?

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Dave Youngren
NER ITA RX7 #61

[Jake]

Does it make sense to get a $140 header a $150 coating? Here's the bugger:

[lateapex911]

Sure! Why not? I'd rather do it to a $140 dollar header that was on sale for $119, wouldn't you?

I think the $ is irellevant...if it is the right part, it makes sense to get the proper performance out of it.


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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[dyoungre]

KISS-

Cooler intake air is denser. cooler underhood means smaller temperature differential across radiator (work with me here, ok?) Biggest underhood heat contributor - exhaust manifold. Remember that at 1000 deg and up, convection is NOT the only enemy - you are getting a lot of radiation as well! Cool that exhaust - no matter the cost.

[gran racing]

I'd rather see you spend $140 to get the header coated by the other source then spend $100 to get pace setter's Armor coat.

Here are the real questions for you...which is worse?

- spend $140 plus shipping to get the header coated

- spend $30 for header wrap but have to wrap the header with it

Either way, I would recommend you buy it. You're going to have the MR2 for quite a long time yet so it would be worth the small investment.

(I wrapped my DC sports header 4 years ago and see no rust, or other negative effects. It had a silver paint, don't think it was coated)

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Dave Gran
NER #13
'87 Honda Prelude si
NOW ITB!!!

[jc836]

So far our DC 4-2-1 CC header is holding up very well. There is no discoloration and thermally the underhood temps seem to be about the same as the stock manifold w/heatshield. Some people will use the wrapping when there is an issue with proximity. There is an alternate solution-cover the starter with a shield made by one of the companies that supply the woven fabric w/aluminum foil facing. This way you will not have a condensation problem with the header.

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Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow

[924Guy]

I tried using the shield - didn't help, only made it worse. Just kept heat in the starter, it seemed, cutting down on the ability of the starter to shed heat gained through conduction with the block.

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Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITA/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

[Geo]

Originally posted by dyoungre:
Why would you want to coat a brake caliper with insulating material - wouldn't that keep the heat IN the caliper and boil your fluid???

You wouldn't. You would coat a caliper with a the Black Body Emitting coating. It helps shed heat. Also illegal in IT though.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Tom Donnelly]

George,
Thanks for the info. I figured the coating was illegal for the calipers.

Greg,
I wasn't sure about the inner coating for the header. If the inner coating was smooth as opposed to rough like the swaintech, you'd have a flow advantage as well as handling the heat as well, wouldn't you?
I guess I need to check out the formula site.
Thanks.

Tom

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by Geo:
Also illegal in IT though.

Are you sure ?

[Geo]

Originally posted by JohnRW:
Are you sure ?

I cannot imagine how they could be. I can't find anything specifically allowing them and if it doesn't say you can, you can't.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com