Yup. Back in the days when I didn't think a tire would make a difference, I would run the Toyo's till they were done. Takes about two years to do thatOriginally posted by gran racing:
Ray, Silly question, but have you used Toyos?
Ray
Senior Member
Yup. Back in the days when I didn't think a tire would make a difference, I would run the Toyo's till they were done. Takes about two years to do thatOriginally posted by gran racing:
Ray, Silly question, but have you used Toyos?
Ray
Senior Member
New driver, but ran a full season on Toyos. Switched to R3SO4s, and was 2 seconds a lap faster at VIR. But, killed the tires in about 7 heat cycles (three Qs, four races). Last race, they were a-sliding, and I corded the outside of the fronts.
So, will probably go back to Toyos for another year.
Member
Just to add to the mix...
Has anyone tried the Hankook Z211s yet?
How do they compare to the Hoosiers, Toyos, various Kumhos?
Anyone have rain experience with these tires in full tread?
Senior Member
To further add to the mix, has anyone tested the new Avons yet?
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-dave
8)
Got Photos?... post 'em here: http://y3k.shacknet.nu:31338/gallery/
Senior Member
Word from the Pro Spec Miata folks (keep in mind the word "Pro") about the Hankooks is that the best way to go fast on them is a new shaved set every weekend.
When he can pick which brand he runs on, Niki Coello (last year's Pro SM champ) picks Toyos over Hankooks.
From non-pro drivers who are friends and tried the Hankooks, the summary is that they can go fast, but don't communicate very well. You realize you're beyond their grip when you're suddenly looking at where you just came from.
One of those guys switched to Toyos and is much happier; the other I expect to see on Toyos at our next event.
I've run on the Hankooks a couple of times, didn't like them compared to my Toyos - had the same communication issues mentioned above, turned similar time to Toyos....but, at the same time I couldn't go any faster on Hoosiers in my SM either, so maybe it's just the driver. (All three tried at the same track, same day.)
FWIW.
Jarrod
Senior Member
Last year I was a newby on Khumo Victoracers. This year I'm a rookie on R3S04's. Just got back from Gingerman. Started the school Saturday on tires with about 14 cycles on them, so probably 22 cycles at the end of the day, with one corded pretty bad. About 1 second faster than the Khumos. I'm pretty sure I'm faster, and so the tires might have been slower.
Put fresh tires on Sunday morning and ran 3 seconds faster than Saturday.
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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR
Senior Member
Guess I'll jump in here. I just did a Kuhmo / Michelin ? Hoosier comparison since I had three sets to compare over three race weekends. First was the Kuhmo to Michelin at Daytona and Moroso.. The sessions were about an hour apart over two days so track temps were close. I was about 1-2 seconds faster with the Michelins and there is no comparison when it comes to wear...the michelins keep on going. Also, the Kuhmo's always go away for awhile then come back while the Michelins are constant.
Then, up at Barber, I compared the Michelins vs the Hoosiers. I gave myself one full test day on the Michelins to get used to the track, then on Saturday, practiced and qualifed on the Michelins, the for the race I slapped on the Hoosiers. The first couple of laps were like someone put glue on my tires, instant improvement...2 seconds. On Sunday, I praticed on the Michelins with the same time an improvement of about a second from the day before....getting to know the track better. Then 45 minutes later, qualified with the Hoosiers...no comparison..another 2 second improvement. Sunday was a 1 1/2 hour enduro and they were solid the entire race and there's still plenty of tread left for the upcoming SAARC at Sebring in Aug......I'm hooked, and I gave away the Kuhmo's
Senior Member
wp - what kind of car and what level of prep??? Thanks for the comparison!
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Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITA/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com
Senior Member
My second set of 04's have been much better than the first. I have put the equivalent of at least 10 sessions on them and they still have more grip than the first set did after 6 sessions! The difference? All I can think of is that the first set I called myself properly heat cycling them on a practice day and then not running them for a day and a half, and the second set I scrubbed in during qualifying and raced them a few hours later. This at first seems contrary but I think what happened is that I did not get the first set hot enough before letting them sit up. So, from my experience I say to make sure you run at least a couple of hard laps during the scub session and then let them rest.
FWIW I could not pass up the great Hoosier sale and bought 8 03's for $107 each.
Senior Member
944 S ITS 87'Originally posted by 924Guy:
wp - what kind of car and what level of prep??? Thanks for the comparison!
Barber...1:51 Michelin's
1:49 Hoosiers
mark
Mark,
Consider this an invitation to race with GTS Challenge at Road Atlanta on Aug 14-15. Depending on your weight/power ratio, you will either be in GTS2 or GTS3. www.gtschallenge.com
Mark Barr
GTS Challenge Director
[email protected]
Senior Member
Only one mention of Goodyears. Our testing has the Goodyear still on par with the 04's. Team car just set a track record on GY's.
So, if I could have any tire? Goodyear all the way. They don't go off like the Hoosier and are much less prone to flatspotting. Notice the cars that have gone faster on the Hoosiers - mostly FWD cars. The heavier RWD cars tend to love the GY's.
HOWEVER - currently the support from GY is slipping. They are slipping in their focus. Hoosier is - and has always been committed to the little guy.
(EDIT) I am talking about the best you can get - Hoosier and Goodyear. Kumho, Toyo and Hankook are great tires but do not provide the ultimate grip.
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
[This message has been edited by ITSRX7 (edited August 09, 2004).]
Administrator
Goodyears are probably the ONLY reason I'd consider going to 15" wheels (if ever allowed...)<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...Our testing has the Goodyear still on par with the 04's...</font>[/b]
Senior Member
Andy,
I know nothing about Goodyears - ran Khumo last year and Hoosier R3S04 this year. Which tire are you refering to, where can I research it, and how much does it cost?
Thanks,
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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR
Senior Member
My apologies Andy for butting in, especially if you are speaking of some other Goodyear, just trying to give Marty a head start on his research.
The tires are Eagle GSSC's.
Not sure where you can get them near you and all the available sizes and prices. A google search came up with:
http://www.bobwoodmantires.com/goodyear/gy...gyeaglegscs.htm
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Daryl DeArman
Senior Member
No problem Daryl!
You are correct. The Eagle GSCS. It's their DOT racing radial. You see them on all the T1, T2 and As cars at the runoffs. We run the 225/50/15 on our RX-7's and feel they are the best tire for the car, money no object.
Cost is the same as a Hoosier with better life IMHO. BUT: Currently, GY is out of them and they are not at the top of their production list.
Here is the corp info on the tire:
http://www.racegoodyear.com/products/racect32.html
And here is who to call to get pricing and availability:
http://www.racegoodyear.com/distributors.html
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
Senior Member
Thank you both very much.
Observations from the spec sheet:
* With a 23.6" dia (vs 22.8) I can't consider it until my rear end grows a little (still got the stock gear).
* Section width should fit without a problem. Maybe I can even drop the spacer.
* Slightly cheaper than Hoosiers.
John Herman just set a track record with them. Maybe I'll try them next year.
Thanks,
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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR
Senior Member
I'm probably being an Earthling and stating the obvious but any head-to-head comparison without optimizing set-up for both tires could go go either way.
I saw a complaint on another board that the new Hosers (eh?) were wearing on the inside edge but it sounded like he had just stuck with the "recommended camber" from last year's tire.
K
Junior Member
new Hoosier vs Goodyear GSCS -
Since none of us who were running Goodyear GSCS 225/50/15 can get any more - we've been forced onto the Hoosier 04's. Ran the first set this weekend. Initially, they seemed to have very crisp turn in, less prone to lock up, but seemed a little twitchy mid corner, but seemed to have nice grip at exit, even though the car seemed to do some weird things. But the care seemed to react well once you realized you had crossed the limit and backed it off a bit. (ITS BMW 325). But I doid not qualify well, though the other car on our team did.
My tires looked very raggedy on the edges of the LF tire, and I kept rotating the ties around. Best race time was 1.01.77, vs 1.03.25 Qual. The race time was as good as I have run on the Goodyear, having said that, the tires went away fast and I went off, then got t-boned in a mid-pack melee. Upon further investigation, I realized the Tire Rack had sent me a set of the "A"'s - the AUTOCROSS tire. I was not aware that Hoosier made this tire for both applications. Not sure what the tire rack will do - but just a word of caution when ordering from them - Make sure you get the right tire!!! Looks like I may be out about $1 grand for the rubber and about $5G's to fix the damage....Maybe they'll make a good one lap qualifying tire?? FYI the other guy on the team ended up winning the race, his time right on top of the Goodyear time, and they seem to be fairly qual - time will tell. Wish me luck in my attempt to get some compensation from the TireRack - so far they seem pretty cool.....
Senior Member
Ouch!
I have always wondered if the A compound would make a good Q tire, but it appears it is a 1 or 2 lap version of the race tire. Fast right away, but fades, vs the R tire which needs a lap or 2 then holds. Little difference in ultimate speed if I read this right.
OK, now that we have almost an entire season on these, what is the, (Assuming there IS one!) consensus on the new Hoosier 04s life cycle. How many cycles are you guys running? Reading back I see things like 3 cycles to 12 cycles! (I am still on my first set, its been about a dozen cycles) Seems like most of you think 7 is tha magic number, but as I recall, that was the same number for the 03s!
If that is the case, that is bad news, because the only difference is more $! (The speed issue is irrelevant, as the old Hoosiers were the fst tire anyway, except for the Goodyears, which don't fit a lot of peoples cars or budgets)
I am trying to figure out my tire "budget" for the rest of the season...
I wish they were like Toyos and got faster after 20 cycles!
sigh.........
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited September 24, 2004).]
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