The New Hoosiers

[zracer22]

Tom, I look forward to your results from the 12 hour.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Tom Blaney:
Keep in mind that this is racing, if you want to go fast you have to spend money. It's that way in every racing venue, I am sure you can get a gagillion miles on a set of Toyo's, but don't get cranky when a set of Hoosiers blow past you in the corners.

True enough Tom, but if we were able to prohibit (somehow! durometer readings?) tires that only last seven (?) heat cycles, we all would be throwing a LOT less money away.

By the time it's all said and done, I have to spend almost a thousand for set of tires to be heat cycled, shipped, mounted and the old ones removed. Seven cycles (two races!!!) it's time to do it all over again! Sucks.

(If I knew what wheel I was going to be on next year I might get another set and do away with the heatcycle charge...)



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[gran racing]

Jake,
Where do you get your Hoosier tires heat cycled?

If you can figure out how to heat cycle them yourself, go up to NE Hoosier in Manchester CT. Free mounting (yeah, have to pay sales taxes).

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[This message has been edited by gran racing (edited June 02, 2004).]

[bldn10]

Now that I know that I can only count on 6 good sessions out of them, has anyone tried traction treatment? I wonder if $20-30 will get at least another day out of them, or make them decent for practice? Any recommendations?

[philstireservice]

Originally posted by bldn10:
Now that I know that I can only count on 6 good sessions out of them, has anyone tried traction treatment? I wonder if $20-30 will get at least another day out of them, or make them decent for practice? Any recommendations?

I've had a few customers use traction treatment...it didn't work

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Phil Phillips Integra GSR #4
www.philstireservice.com
Official Independent Amsoil Dealer for the ECHC
Distributor for FireCharger AFFF fire systems
Hoosier Tire Dealer

[Jake]

FWIW, ran R3S04's for the first time at LRP last weekend and pulled a 1:05.5. The last race up there was on 13 race old Toyos and did a 1:06.5.

[oanglade]

So,
after that 6th heat cycle on the Hoosiers (or 7th or 10th) what are you left of in terms of grip, compared not to a fresh Hoosier, but to another brand tire, like a Toyo?

I mean, is a Hoosier with 8 heat cycles slower than a Toyo or a Kumho? Or is it just slower than a fresh Hoosier, but perhaps about like a Toyo (say, a second a lap slower if we use Jake's example right above) or are they simply too hard to be worth anything?

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Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA

[gran racing]

Ony,
Jake's saying he was 1 second faster on the new Hoosiers versus 13 race old Toyos. Not new toyos versus old Toyos or new toyos versus new Hoosiers.



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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[oanglade]

I understand that.

My question (to anyone) is how do Hoosiers with say, 7 heat cycles, compare to new Toyos, for example.

I know Toyos stay fairly consistent through their life, at least in my experience.


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Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA

[This message has been edited by oanglade (edited June 21, 2004).]

[gran racing]

Maybe with all of the Hoosier hype I'm in a bit of post mortum shock. At first 1 second definately sounds worth it. Then...1 second with 13 old "MR2" Toyos versus new Hoosiers? And I need to preface 13 race MR2 Toyos because they are much different then 3 race old prelude Toyos.

Maybe Jake isn't used to the new Hoosiers and using to their full potential? Nothing against ya Jake, but you already know that. There has been so much hype about Hoosier versus Toyo.



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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[moto62]

Originally posted by oanglade:
My question (to anyone) is how do Hoosiers with say, 7 heat cycles, compare to new Toyos, for example.

FWIW- The first two races I ran this year were on SO3's that I used at the ARRC last year. Did I store them in a nice warm cushy basement wrapped in blankets over the winter? NO! They stayed on the car, on the trailer outside suffering from all the elements. Were they slower than they were last year? Yes, but only by a half a second or so. I only got beat by dudes on brandy new RSO4's. The last race this past weekend was my first experience with the RSO4's and WOW! They were fantastic. I'll let you all know later in the year when they slow down to a "new" Toyo speed. Don't hold your breath.
Ray

[gran racing]

Ray,
You really notice that much of a difference versus Toyos at LRP? Silly question, but have you used Toyos?

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[bldn10]

For comparison purposes, I ran the news Hoosiers on a 2nd Gen. ITS RX-7 but your results may vary. They were just beginning to get a little loose toward the end of the 6th session but I assumed it was just the track (and it may have been, at least partially) so I had no resrvations starting my next event on them, especially since the Hoosier man was talking about people getting 10 sessions out of them. I was shocked at the lack of grip in the 7th session - twitchy under hard braking and unable to power out of turns. That said, the next day I put on a new set and was only about a second quicker, but I was not pressed and they felt much better. My take is that the new Hoosiers after 4 sessions are not as good as new Toyos and after that the gap widens. The Hoosiers are "special occasion" tires. :-)

[pfcs]

;

[pfcs]

John Stimm was my first try w/new Hoosiers.
initial impression was very good in qualifying and first third of race. After qualifying, temps were very even and LR temps were almost as high as LF-certainly not an understeering setup. By race's end, understeer/LF tire protest was significant and I was suprised to find that chunking had started along inside edge of outer groove of LF tire. (tires were purchased heat-cycled from Tire Rack)The entire remainder of LF tread had nice fine marbling typical of a happy tire.

[Joe Craven]

I just ran both the Goodyears and 04 Hoosiers at a recent double regional at Laguna Seca in my 1971 Capri in ITB.

New Hoosiers R3S04 205/60-13
New Goodyear GSCS 205/60-13

Race 1 - R3S04 1:52.722
Race 2 - GSCS 1:52.770

BTW, I've compared 03s with the Goodyears last year and they perform similarly.

My conclusion is that the performance of the Hoosier 03s, 04s and Goodyear GSCS is very similar on my car. From what I'm hearing from others, they seem to last similarly. I wouldn't be surprised to eventually hear that the compound is the same on the 03 and 04 tires. They definitely feel different on the track, 03s are twitchy although I can race on either.

Joe Craven
37 ITB Capri

[philstireservice]

Originally posted by pfcs:
John Stimm was my first try w/new Hoosiers.
initial impression was very good in qualifying and first third of race. After qualifying, temps were very even and LR temps were almost as high as LF-certainly not an understeering setup. By race's end, understeer/LF tire protest was significant and I was suprised to find that chunking had started along inside edge of outer groove of LF tire. (tires were purchased heat-cycled from Tire Rack)The entire remainder of LF tread had nice fine marbling typical of a happy tire.

Becareful of your setup........any tire will start to chunk if "pushed"


------------------
Phil Phillips Integra GSR #4
www.philstireservice.com
Official Independent Amsoil Dealer for the ECHC
Distributor for FireCharger AFFF fire systems
Hoosier Tire Dealer

[gran racing]

How much are the New Goodyear GSCS 205/60-13?

I've heard that they last even longer then the new Hoosiers. But that's just a rumor.

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[Joe Craven]

RS304 205/60-13 ~$145
GSCS 205/60-13 ~$170

I'll report on life after I run both sets through some cycles. I have 4 cycles on the '04s (think I noticed a drop on the 4th cycle) and 3 cycles on the GSCS tires so far.

[timo944]

I've had two sets of the S04's on my 944: one on 7" wheels and one on 8" wheels (for PCA), all 225/45/15.

The set on 7" wheels is surviving well, although I did cord the inside of the RF pretty quickly, about 4 sessions.

The set on the 8" wheels got killed after 2 qualifying sessions, a 35 minute sprint, and a 90 minute enduro (1st place!). The annoying part is that EVERY tire was perfect in the middle, but corded on either the inside or outside edge. I have never had problems like this before. Pressures are 45 psi hot, as recommended.

I plan to go to Hoosier with this but I guess that the S04's are more sensitive to camber settings than the S03's. Time to get a new battery for that Pyrometer.

Timo