bolt-in cages

[Bill Miller]

Reading the recent thread on "what does it take", coupled w/ some recent changes in the Prod community, I was wondering what everyone's thoughts on bolt-in cages were. We're making changes to cars in the interest of safety, I wonder just how long it's going to be before bolt-in cages are no longer allowed.

Thoughts?

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[John Herman]

I would image they will always be allowed because of cars like a Corvette or Acura NSX (all aluminum?) which won't accept weld-in cages. There is probably no reason that they could not be just as safe as weld-in cages. Maybe a better question may be, what needs revising to the bolt-in cage rules to improve their safety?

[Knestis]

I frankly don't think that "bolt-in" vs. "weld-in" is the biggest point of variance for cages, in terms of safety.

K

[Speed Raycer]

Originally posted by Knestis:
I frankly don't think that "bolt-in" vs. "weld-in" is the biggest point of variance for cages, in terms of safety.

K

Exactly. It's the design of the cage. I've seen designs on some weld in cages that I've had more questions about than some bolt in cages.

The cage that was in my RX when I bought it was the typical AP type weld in cage with bolted base plates. It seemed that any weld that the installer couldn't get to while standing outside the car was smothered in epoxy and then painted over. And yes, this cage passed tech MANY times.

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Scott Rhea
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it

Izzy's Custom Cages

[This message has been edited by Speed Raycer (edited September 07, 2004).]

[Bill Miller]

Kirk,

I agree that there's probably more variance in the weld-in style cage, than between a bolt-in vs. a weld-in.

To me, the biggest problem w/ the bolt-in cages, is that they mount to the floor pan in most cases. This is not necessarily an issue for newer cars, but I think of some of the older cars, w/ suspect floor pans. I'm reminded of a series of photos from a couple years ago, of an ITB Rabbit GTI that rolled several times in a crash at VIR. Comments were made that if the car had gone over one more time, it probably would have punched through the floor pan.

I believe SS has moved away from requiring removeable cages, and allowed weld-in ones.

Again, just something that I was thinking about.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Mark LaBarre]

I've always wondered at the wisdom of "Requiring" the front down tubes to be on the floor.

[gsbaker]

A properly designed bolted connection is every bit as strong as a properly designed welded connection.

The welded cage has the advantage of zero maintenance.

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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[joeg]

Greg is correct. I'd pit a Safety Devices "bolt together" cage against any weld together, any day.

Cheers.

[zracre]

i rolled a gti at road atlanta a few years back that had a bolt in cage...4 1/2 times. the car was unrecognisable after the wreck..landed on the lf to rr in an end over end roll. the cage crushed itself down about 4" but i walked away without a scratch...David Bowles built the car and raced it for a few ECR seasons and won. the cage is not the problem...proper installation is key.

[Russ Myers]

I've been around Showroom Stock cars for years and Have yet to see a problem with an Autopower or Kirk cage. I also remember guys wadding cars up into littl;e balls with nothing more than a roll bar, and walking away unharmed (myself, Road Atlanta, 1980). Now, I am not saying we could go back to this, but weld in v. bolt in really isn't an issue.

Russ Myers