Brake pads.. what do you run?

[RSTPerformance]

Thanks everyone for your input. We will be getting the new panthers from Carbotech to try out. They will be making the pads for us (If we send them baking plates) as they only sell them for the larger (updated) brakes which almost all Audi's other than the early early 80's have.

The cost of the Carbotech’s is about $40 a set cheaper then the Protafields so it’s well worth a try. If we are unhappy with those then we will go try out the Hawks... I must say our decision to go with Carbotech was the result of Larry's great customer service.

I will be sure to post our comparisons.

Thanks again

Raymond Blethen


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RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com
1st and 2nd 2003 ITB NARRC Championship
1st and 6th 2003 ITB NERRC Championship
3rd 2003 ITB ARRC Sprint Race
4th 2003 ITB ARRC Endoro
1st 2003 AS NERRC and NARRC Championships

[Silkworm]

Carbotech Panther XPs all around.

PaulC
2G RX-7 PS-1/ITS

[Jan in Omaha]

SSC Neon

Hawk Blue front / O'Reilly cheapies rear

Tried HP-10's and were OK. Better modulation but wore faster than Blues.

Tried Carbotech XP8 but had severe backing plate issues (inner pads warped terribly) Larry acknowledged that this is a problem with Neon pads. If they work this problem out I might try them again.

Staying with Blues for now.

[jlucas]

SSC Civic SI - Cobalt Friction Spec VR
I've tried Hawks & Carbotechs previously, like the Cobalts better, more grip & easier to modulate (no ABS).

Jeremy Lucas
Team Honda Research
Kumho-Cobalt-Comptech

[Jake]

Great thread.

BTW, there are eleventeen compounds of Carbotech pads. It would be helpful if people would mention the compound. (the Panthers are good, the Panther Plus are better, the Panther XP is even better)

[Super Swift]

Performance Friction!!
compound *97*

Spec Miata & ITS e36(ARRC enduro winner)

They are simply the best pads. Try them and you to will know why.

some reason I wrote 93 instead of 97 *sorry*

[This message has been edited by Super Swift (edited April 20, 2004).]

[philstireservice]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
Thanks everyone for your input. We will be getting the new panthers from Carbotech to try out. They will be making the pads for us (If we send them baking plates) as they only sell them for the larger (updated) brakes which almost all Audi's other than the early early 80's have.

The cost of the Carbotech’s is about $40 a set cheaper then the Protafields so it’s well worth a try. If we are unhappy with those then we will go try out the Hawks... I must say our decision to go with Carbotech was the result of Larry's great customer service.

I will be sure to post our comparisons.

Thanks again

Raymond Blethen

Ray, A lot of the Honda Challenge guys run the Carbotech's with great results. The initial bite is very good, but you do have to add a little more foot pressure after that.....I don't run Carbotech, although Larry has asked me repeatedly to, I run Hawk blues and like Bill M., no problems so far so I have no reason to change.

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Phil Phillips
94 Acura Integra GSR #4
ITS/H3/ST1
www.philstireservice.com
Official Independent Amsoil Dealer for the East Coast Honda Challenge
distributor for FireCharger AFFF fire systems
Hoosier Tire Dealer
Toyo Tire Dealer

[RSTPerformance]

Phil what brakes did you use in your Audi?

Raymond

[philstireservice]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
Phil what brakes did you use in your Audi?

Raymond

ATE pads on the front and stock Audi shoes on the rear....that car had very good brakes in the front...never used the rear much.

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Phil Phillips
94 Acura Integra GSR #4
ITS/H3/ST1
www.philstireservice.com
Official Independent Amsoil Dealer for the East Coast Honda Challenge
distributor for FireCharger AFFF fire systems
Hoosier Tire Dealer
Toyo Tire Dealer

[Racescort]

I use Carbotech Panther XPs also. They last forever and have great bite.

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Doug
87 Golf GTI
[email protected]

[7racing]

Hawk Blue front/rear on the 1st gen RX7. Hawk Blue front/rear on Spec Miata (1.8). Ran an enduro with Hawk Black on a Spec Miata (1.6). Don't use Black compound on the front!!

Thinking about HT-10 front/blue rear on the Nissan (2530lbs).

Jeremy

[Eric Parham]

On FWD VW front brakes (I use various stuff on the rear drums with an adjustable prop valve to balance it all), I have experience with Hawk Blues, Porterfields (don't know designation), PFC and some sort of ceramic pad that I wish I could remember the name of.

I had trouble modulating the Porterfields and will avoid them in the future.

The PFC pads ate and, even worse, *cracked* rotors regularly, but were otherwise pretty good (I believe that they discontinued that material). I did have some trouble with the material falling off the backing plate if the car sat for more than about a month after a hot event. I would probably use them again if they get reintroduced.

The ceramic pads were fantastic. Reasonable initial bite and a dream to modulate. They ate rotors as fast as the pads, but the rotors for a VW are cheap. I would use them again if I could remember what they were. I loved the noise they made once they were up to temp -- it let me know *exactly* what they were doing. Might try the Carbotechs, since they seem to be ceramic too.

The Hawk Blues are good and consistent. Not the best I've ever used, but very very far from the worst. Readily available is nice too. They seem to be pretty easy on my rotors, not that I care too much about that.

[evanwebb]

Really interesting, I use Porterfield R4 on the from of my ITC scirocco and I've been happy with them (stock shoes on the rear). Am I missing something? What advantage do the Carbotech (which compound?) or Hawk Blues have over the Porterfield? I guess it's possible that the R4 doesn't have a super-high friction coefficient, but I don't know how to compare. One caveat is that I race mostly at Summit Point, and there is a heavy, straight braking zone from high speed in Turn1 and Turn 5, and I don't touch them anywhere else. Are there some conditions where the other pads behave better in some way? I'm converting the car to limited-prep HP and I'll be going faster but the car weighs less, and I hadn't planned to change anything on the brakes, but I will if there is some advantage... Thanks!

[RSTPerformance]

I said I would give feedback so I will...

I loved my brakes sooo much better than last year. They felt much more responsive. I also had redone all my lines and put in a brake bias. So my brother quickly said that I can not give accurate feedback, so I said well then what did you think?

He said the carbotechs were more responsive than the portafields, and that he did not have and fading at all. He was very pleased that we went through the effort of trying something new. Not only is it much cheeper but it is a better product.

The carbotechs were a little more than quoted (we were quoted 129.99 and sold to us at 139.99) When we placed the order Larry was not overly interested in making these pads as he wasn't going to make any money so I did say I would understand if they were a little more $$$. I also had told him that the pads were very very thick (I had no idea) they actually are not suposed to be that thick, so when they arrived they didn't fit. Randy 15 (one of our crew) spent a couple hours bonding with a grinder and the pads making them fit. They came out reasonably well without to many high spots.

We have been sold on the Carbotechs and I encourage anyone running on Portafields or any other pads to try out the Carbotechs, and offer your feedback as well.

Raymond "Mr. Carbotech, do I deserve some sort of discount for this yet" Blethen

[GKR_17]

Performance Friction

97 is the best overall compound for IT, but they have others for a few specific applications.

[JohnW]

Carbotech. Period end of story.

I'm one of those Honda-Challenge guys Phil is talking about.

I LOVE the Panther XP1108, the 1109s were even better and this spring tested the NEW 1110s. I think the 1110's maybe a bit too strong for my 2100 lb H1 Civic but if I raced a AS Mustang or T1 Chevy that IS the pad to have.

If I get out qualified by another non-Carbotech car, I simply hunt them down, melt their brakes and take the corner. Its kinda cool! :-)

JohnW.
Team Carbotech #88


[This message has been edited by JohnW (edited April 19, 2004).]

[Russell]

I tried the Carbotech panther xp 1109 pads on the front of my ITS sentra se-r. I did my double drivers school at Roebling road no problem (not much braking there). My next race was at Moroso. everyone told me that Moroso was pretty easy on brakes as well. I guess it is not that easy because I DISTROYED the carbotechs there. Granted they felt good all day long and never faded, till the piston on my drivers side caliper did a cookie cutter through the backing plate and into my rotor! I will NEVER buy carbotechs again.

I tried a set of Raebestos ST41s from Porterfield. I bedded them in at Daytona but did not even make 5 laps in the Saturday race due to axel failure. My next race on them was at Sebring short course which everyone seems to know is a brake killer. I had great brakes all day long on both days and had about 1/2 pad left at the end of the weekend. I am sold

I have also used Hawk blues at Sebring short and experienced fade.

All of this was done with 3" brake ducts.

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[SPiN Racing]

I Know you already decided. sooo this is informational for everyone..

I have run Hawk BLues and Blacks.. I run RX-7's.. and specifically.. Ran the blues on Sebring Long and Short on Track Days.. (Chin Motorsports) on a 86 RX-7 Sport EP prep.. and a 88 RX-7 T2 with healthy mods. BOTH cars had no brake ducting.. and I could go 10 10ths for over a hour long or short course without fade. I wore out before the Brakes faded.
Rotor wear was minimal and the pads lasted through prolly 6-7 Chin events for each car. Each event gives appx 6hours of track time.

Now.. I DID make a mistake on the 86 and DROVE the Car on the street for a week with the Blues on it.. And well... THe rotors were GONE in a week... I mean 80 percent life to vanes showing in TWO weeks. So YES.. They will DESTROY rotors unless at temp.

Hawk Blacks. I ran them on short course Sebring front and back.. in a ITA 85 RX-7 and they were kinda marginal while running.. had a healthy bit of fade.. Prolly 3/4 pedal travel.. Not soo good. minimal ducting. When On the cool down lap they went away... the fluid in the calipers boiled out and I had to overshoot the hair/safety-pin.
The rubber on the calipers caught fire when I stopped in the pits.. Soo I would say No to Blacks on the track.

Talked with the engineer for Mintex pads at SEMA this year.. and talked at length. They use smaller particles in the pad material.. so I am going to try a set on the 86 EP to see how they work. But I prefer the Blues myself.

Scott
SPiN Racing

[Carbotechmatt]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">I tried the Carbotech panther xp 1109 pads on the front of my ITS sentra se-r. </font>

Actually Russ, according to computer records, you purchased 1108 compound, not 1109, which was not released yet when you purchased.

[This message has been edited by Carbotechmatt (edited April 23, 2004).]

[Knestis]

Hmmm. Seems to me that some of the thermal failure modes that have been described here - the cookie cutter piston trick (I've seen that kind of thing), boiling fluid, or flaming seals - don't have a darned thing to do with pad compounds.

K