Which tires?

[zooracer]

I did a search and didnt find what I was looking for. I am building an ITB suzuki swift, and am ready to order my first set of tires in 195/55-14. I am looking at either the Kumho (shaved) or the hoosier. There are two Kumho's to choose from, the older victoracer and the ecsta. Also, I know the kumho is cheaper and lasts longer. How long will the hoosiers last? How much faster are they then the Kumho's?
If I go with the Kumho's does it matter which one?
Thanks for any assistance you can give,
matt

[gran racing]

There are several factors that will help you make your decision.

#1 Budget - Toyos (yes, another tire to consider) and Kumos will typically last longer. (Not sure about the new V710)

Are you just beginning and want to get out on the track? Or are you looking to win? If you're looking to get out there at a reasonable cost, Toyos or Kumos are a good choice. If you are looking to win, Hoosiers or the new Kumo tires (V710) are the way to go.

[zooracer]

That is kind of what I had thought. But which Kumho's are best? Or are they pretty much the same (the victoracer and ecsta)?

[jlucas]

Between the Kumho's, go with the shaved Victoracer V700s. Down the road if they are available in your size, go with the new V710.

Jeremy Lucas

[joeg]

The Hoosier is a significantly faster tire than either of the "old style" KUMHOs or the TOYO for drivers of pretty much any skill level.

I do not think anyone with experience with all of these tires would claim different.

Hoosiers wear at a faster rate than the others, however.

I use Hoosiers for dry and full depth Victoracers as intermediate rains.

Cheers.

[gran racing]

I have heard great things about Toyos. My friend who races a MR2 will be using his darn Toyos again this season! Jake - how many races have you used them? 1 1/2 seasons so far? Grrr.

I go though tire much quicker...I'm sure it largely is due to the car I run (FWD) and that I'm using 5 1/2" rims. I'm also using Kumos. I do have to say, I have been pretty happy with them other than tire wear. I can't imagine what I'll say once I switch to Hoosiers.

[zooracer]

Okay, thanks for the response. I guess the final question I have in my mind is, with a FWD car, how many races (or months) can I expect out of a set of kumho's or hoosiers? How much difference in the wear rate between them?
In my mind, if the wear difference is small, and the cost is only a hundred bucks difference for a set, then maybe I should go with the faster tire.
Of course I dont know how competitive I will be anyways, first season and all...

[racer_tim]

The Kuhmo's or Toyo's will last you a long time, especially if your just starting out. Depending upon how many races you plan on running, they should last on a light weight Swift, 7-8 race weekends. Run then to the cords, then get new tires. Remember that the fronts will take most of the abuse, so rotate them every event.

The Hoosiers will flat spot more easily. Spend your money on seat time, rather than on the Hoosier's for the first year.



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit (Bent)
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[RSTPerformance]

find used tires for your first year... preferably old hard ones with multiple heat cycles on them... at least do this till you figure out if the car can handle new rubber... In the Audi's when we first started we could not get more than 8 laps on new or used tires and they would be literally coming apart to the point that the fenders would be getting slapped... at the end of a race the entire outside half of the tire would be cords...

Raymond Blethen


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RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com
1st and 2nd 2003 ITB NARRC Championship
1st and 6th 2003 ITB NERRC Championship
3rd 2003 ITB ARRC Sprint Race
4th 2003 ITB ARRC Endoro
1st 2003 AS NERRC and NARRC Championships

[racer_tim]

Ray, why was that? Camber / toe all messed up?



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit (Bent)
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[RSTPerformance]

Mostly Camber related (we could not get anymore than 1.5 degrees of neg camber into the front, you will need more than that with FWD)

Although I think that the suspension also could be partially to blame. For the second season we put in coil-overs and camber plates. 2 seconds a lap only $600.00. Best money ever spent. Tires then lasted an entire weekend which inevitably saved us huge tire $$$ in the long run (more than paid for themselves in a matter of a couple weekends). We now have a highly modified suspension that includes adjustable shocks/struts and what, we can get a couple weekends out of the tires. We can easily run 3 hours and still have a fair amount of tred left.

Thats why I say start out with used tires

Good Luck

[Speed Raycer]

Someone posted this once on this board and it really rang true.... when you've maxxed out your times on Toyo's or Khumos you can always drop 1-2 seconds by switching to Hoosiers. If you're just starting racing and running Hoosiers, you've got no where to go...

Personally, I'm going to try some Toyo's this year as I'm planning on doing quite a few open track test days to get seat time.

------------------
Scott
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it

[zooracer]

Ok, will look for some used tires. I also dont have much negative camber yet, no plates, just the eccentric strut bolts.
thanks for the responses!

[x-ring]

If you can't find any used tires you might consider a set of Falken Azenis Sports. I'm reasonably sure they come in 195-14.

No, they aren't as fast a tire as either of the Kumho's or the Toyo's, but Discount Tire will sell them to you for around $80/tire mounted and balanced. Since they're a little harder than 'real' race tires, you should get five or so weekends out of a set. I have a set I keep for all of my practice and warmup sessions plus track days, and last year I didn't quite wear one set out. They're also very resistant to flat-spotting, probably because of the harder compound.

On my car (280Z) they run less than 2 seconds/lap slower then V700's, which is plenty close enough for my purposes and should do fine for a beginner who doesn't want to replace an expensive tire due to a flat spot every few sessions.

Ty

[JLawton]

I got about 11 races on a set of Kumhos on a 944. Would have gotten a few more if I hadn't flat spotted them...... But I was never a threat of winning......

The fear of flat spotting as a newbie kept me from the Hoosiers.

------------------
Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[gran racing]

The used tire idea is very good. I started on old BFG spec racer ford tires. They were a bit slippery, but when I moved to Kumos I instantly gained a lot of confidence. I think I also learned more about car control. I'm looking forward to seeing what Hoosiers can do for me later in the season.

Look at eBay motors, sccaforums.com, and keep your eyes open while at the track for people throwing away their "bad" tires.

[RSTPerformance]

Flat spotting.... quick story!!!

a cvouple years ago I brought an ex-girlfreind to a race. In the first session (qualifying) I flat spotted a brand new Hoosier right to the cords (track was damp from morning thaw, I didn't realized it had locked, continued driving and it locked every time I hit those crappy Audi brakes). In the race I broke an axel on the first lap. After the day I did a little complaining...

$200.00 entry
$180.00 tire
$100.00 gas and towing expenses
$100.00 - $150.00 Axel

actual laps: from memory I think 5 or 6 laps.

Cost per lap around $100.00

ya she was not impressed with the sport.

Moral of the story: Don't complain to your "significant other" about the expenses, they will probably find it less impressive than you!!!

Good Luck again and oh don't shy away from other widths especially when looking for used tires. Most people (the few that have raced Audi's) that we talked to ran 195's on the Audi's we run a 225.

Raymond Blethen

PS: Invest the $200 for the camber plates... actually be smart and invest the $400-$500 for the camber caster plates.

[zooracer]

I am going to get the camber/caster plates before my first race after hearing about your problem with not enough camber. I shouldnt have much problem getting used tires at the track. I did even consider the falken azenis, but was worried about keeping a good enough pace in the drivers school to get a passing grade. Plus I thought they may chunk or not hold up to the temp's on track down here in florida. I have autocrossed with them, and they certainly dont even compare to hoosiers.

[x-ring]

I wouldn't worry about keeping a fast enough pace to get a passing grade, they are watching to see how safe you not how fast.

The Azenis won't chunk, even if you run them full depth in the Florida summer. It's plenty hot in New Mexico in the summer (but it's a dry heat) and while I've chunked V700's the Azenis don't seem to care.

Ty