Quest to lose weight - HVAC

[Geo]

Originally posted by planet6racing:
Ah, now we're getting to the root of the matter as to why I asked the question! I can see it both ways, each with their own interpretation of the rules...

I'm just curious if anyone knows whether this controversy has ever been settled by the COA?

I don't care much one way or the other because my car will still have the heater and the Sentra I borrow still has it. Makes a big difference sometimes. At a race in January it was cold and raining and I didn't get a Q time time since I took too long getting the car set up for rain so I started dead last. When I got to the first turn I found the pole sitting ITE Porsche 951 in the mud. I talked with the driver and he couldn't see a thing. He took his whole heater/defroster system out. My windscreen was clear all race long.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Eagle7]

Originally posted by Geo:
...When I got to the first turn I found the pole sitting ITE Porsche 951 in the mud. I talked with the driver and he couldn't see a thing...

Wouldn't it have been better to keep racing?

[ddewhurst]

***Wouldn't it have been better to keep racing?***

That shows to go ya that it's the bench racing season. Have Fun
David

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by dieselsdad:
I took everything out except for the heater core itself. I took the heater core out of the plastic container it was in with all of the ducting and baffles. I completely gutted everything that had to do with the ac. If it worked with the heater as well as the ac I removed it. I read the rules to say, all ac components could be removed in whole or in part. Someones gonna flame me for this I can tell.

Well, I don't know if you will call this a flame, but I will be clear that I disagree, and think you went over the line.

The rule states that you may remove any or all of the "A/C system". It does not say: "Any or all of the HVAC system, excluding the raw heater core".

I would submit that:

-A/C is the part that cools the air.
-Heating is the part that warms the air.
-HVAC is the system that encompasses and supports the heating, ventilation, and air conditioning functions. Clearly some of the parts in the system are dual function...they provide support to both temperature modification aspects of the system. As such, they are NOT purely 'air conditioning' parts, per se'. They are HVAC parts, which are clearly not mentioned in the rule.

I would also submit that if someone were to protest you, I would be very surprised if it wsn't upheld. Perhaps the rule needs to be made more obvious and clearly stated, but removing the plastic holding the heatercore would seem to me to be beyond 'reaasonable'.




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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Chris Wire]

My dash bar for my cage runs inside of the dash panel. Therefore:

a) heater core is in minus the heater case since it was impossible to install between the bar and firewall,

evap and case are gone

c) blower and case are in but not in original location which is far right dash corner. Too much stuff in the way.

d) dash ducting (amounting to probably less than a pound) is still in but useless.

Word of caution: Sometimes Tech likes to try to bust people by having the driver power up the car and flipping the blower fan switch to see if it works. I don't believe the GCR says that the system has to be functional, it just has to be there.

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Chris Wire
Team Wire Racing
ITS Mazda RX7 #35
[email protected]

[gsbaker]

This brings up one of the benefits of an open-cockpit car: the windshield never fogs up!

Of course, it can get really wet inside, but at least the windshield never fogs up.

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Gregg Baker
Isaac, LLC
[email protected]

[The Sleeper]

THe way I read the rule, any item that the cooled air from the a/c system touches, and or passes though along with supported components may be removed. Mine will have a solo heater core mounted to the firewall,Ohh with 2" heater hoses, now if the rule stated "the heating system" and components then I would leave the housing ducts etc...

[The Sleeper]

Ohhh and a little trick I learned years ago running GT2, get a turbo injector cooler fan off a 280 zx leave in your defroster ducts, the ones mounted on the dash right below the windshield, duct the fan to both ducts on the dash(it has a built on splitter)... no fogged up windshield, it`s not the temp of the air it`s the volume that keeps the w/s fog free.I also used fog-free on the inside. And the whole setup weights less then 5 lbs. Never had to fight the windshield rain or dry.

[jc836]

Realizing that each of us has the desire to do the maiximum to lower the weight of our cars-I took the simplest approach to the AC/Heater. If it is part of the car as new from the factory-it stays. If it is an optional add-on component it goes. Thus the Heater box, core, blower, ducting, hoses and control unit are in my car (the defroster works!). Honda in its wisdom offered AC as an option and the only part I had to get from the yard was the duct from the blower to the heater case to return the car to original. I did salvage the rubber plugs for the firewall as well. What I removed based on the rule as written were all of the AC parts that were dealer installed. I will agree that some have taken a sound approach and have bypassed the entire system, you just cannot remove it.
The weight of the CRX AC is ~45 pounds ready to ship; I have no idea what the heater core and blower assemblies weigh and will assume one would benefit from the extra radiator capacity anyway.
Just my 2 cents--Happy Thanksgiving

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Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow

[ddewhurst]

Bill, it has been almost one month since this thread was first posted. Our off season is is approx five months & you were going to loose 20 pounds. That would average 4 pounds per mounth. Please don't take this as a slam/flame or anything negative. I have gained 7 pounds since we quit racing in mid October. Dam beer............

How ya doing
David

[planet6racing]

David:

Not so good. Holidays and vacation are killing me. I'm back to the weight I was at last year at this time, which is now 25# too much...

Starting December 1, things are going to have to change!


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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[Eric Parham]

Doesn't "all A/C equipment" mean anything thats different between an A/C car and a non-A/C car? So, if the two versions of a given car have *no* HVAC components in common (for example, except perhaps the heater core itself), then everything else *may* be removed. Nowhere does the GCR say that non-A/C components from a non-A/C equipped car must be sourced, adapted (if necessary, since not ALL of the A/C components *have* to be removed), and installed.

The interpretation problem comes in because some make/models are like my example (completely different parts between A/C and non), while others share most of the same parts. So, is it "fair" to make the car that shares the same parts keep them while allowing the car models that have different parts to remove them (e.g., core housing, ducts, vacuum controls, even heater hoses, etc.)? I'd guess not.

That's one reason why the other admittedly tortured interpretations can be acceptable in this particular case, at least when presented by a driver of a "same parts" type of car (who is deprived of the better argument). It's easier to accept such interpretations than to completely rewrite the rule, IMHO.

[This message has been edited by Eric Parham (edited December 03, 2003).]

[itafiero]

Yes you are correct but we're arguing a few pounds of difference which only comes in to play with very consistent drivers. I'm one of those not consistent drivers where 80#s may make a difference but 2# won't. Better to focus on other areas of the rules that are even more confused than this one IMHO.

Originally posted by Eric Parham:
Doesn't "all A/C equipment" mean anything thats different between an A/C car and a non-A/C car? So, if the two versions of a given car have *no* HVAC components in common (for example, except perhaps the heater core itself), then everything else *may* be removed. Nowhere does the GCR say that non-A/C components from a non-A/C equipped car must be sourced, adapted (if necessary, since not ALL of the A/C components *have* to be removed), and installed.

The interpretation problem comes in because some make/models are like my example (completely different parts between A/C and non), while others share most of the same parts. So, is it "fair" to make the car that shares the same parts keep them while allowing the car models that have different parts to remove them (e.g., core housing, ducts, vacuum controls, even heater hoses, etc.)? I'd guess not.

That's one reason why the other admittedly tortured interpretations can be acceptable in this particular case, at least when presented by a driver of a "same parts" type of car (who is deprived of the better argument). It's easier to accept such interpretations than to completely rewrite the rule, IMHO.

[This message has been edited by Eric Parham (edited December 03, 2003).]

[lateapex911]

No, I don't think comparing different versions of the same model is valid.

See my above post, AC stuff is AC stuff!

If the car in question has a different and unweildy HVAC system, then perhaps it wsn't the ideal choice.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Geo]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
If the car in question has a different and unweildy HVAC system, then perhaps it wsn't the ideal choice.

Actually, it can be really easy. The 944 has a completely separate AC system that feeds into a single duct into the heater box. Couldn't have been easier or more straight-forwrd to remove

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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com