Newbie Learning Debate - Front Sway Bar

Hello!

I am debating about attaching my front sway bar on my CRX or not.

So far I have run my drivers school at Nelson and the WOR games without the front sway bar attached. From what I have read this is the ideal way to ultimately run the car.

From a learning stand point though, a few people I have spoken with have voiced it would be easier to learn the car and tracks with the front sway bar attached by making the rear end less loose.

My current setup is 450# front springs, 650# rear springs with a rear sway bar (not sure of the diameter off the top of my head). Doing some setting adjustment on Sunday at Mid O, full firm on front shocks with half on rears, I put in a 1:51 during qualifying. During the race I learned a valuable lesson about having my cold pressure to high in my rears and my back end let go on me around lap 5 (my own stupid fault).

Just curious if it would be beneficial to learn with or without the sway bar from the get go. At this point I am inclined to leave it disconnected since that is the way I have been and should eventually be running it.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Thanks!

I know next to nothing about FWD racing, so no advice on the sway bar. What turn did you lose it in? Might be a different issue.

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Originally Posted by Eagle7

I know next to nothing about FWD racing, so no advice on the sway bar. What turn did you lose it in? Might be a different issue.

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CRXs are some of the snappiest FWD cars around. they are fast once you learn to reign them in. what to do is a difficult answer - there's an argument to be made either way. do whichever you are most comfortable with. if you have a front bar, bolt it in and see what you think, odds are you will NOT like it. on the other hand, if you are spinning dangerously often, you have to do SOMETHING to bring the car to your level - and whiel a front bar MIGHT be an answer, it's only 1 of many possible ways to slow the rotation.

good luck!

You are not oversprung, I run 600# front 800# rear with no front sway bar and big adjustable on rear. Set it mid at Nelson and full firm at Mid ohio. Shocks are most always full soft front and depending on track conditions mid to firm back. If you put front bar on you will probably pick up a push in the car. The setup I run makes the car a little loose. Granted my civic has a little longer WB but loose is fast.

You're going to find that there are multiple orthodoxies - the ONLY way to do it - out there. A few constants, though...

** You WILL make the car more loose as you gain experience. You'll to something (for me it was more rear bar) that will make the car feel GREAT then in a few hours, you'll want more of the same.

** If you aren't constantly scared sh!tless, then you're not too loose. Pretty much any off in a CRX is going to lose the rear end first. Get used to it. In fact, LOVE IT - it's what makes the car inherently fast.

** Finally, in terms of driver development, going more conservative (i.e., more push) is going the wrong way. Let's assume that you want race - as opposed to doing track days - so you'll have do deal with oversteer eventually. Better now than later.

Have fun!

K

EDIT - try to start making the distinction between balance in steady-state corners and balance in transitions. Shock adjustments will tweak the latter ONLY.

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Originally Posted by Eagle7

I know next to nothing about FWD racing, so no advice on the sway bar. What turn did you lose it in? Might be a different issue.

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The spin was in the additional bend added before the sweeping turn onto the back straight. The left hander out of there. I went in full tilt, got in a straight line and braked. Turned in and got into the power. The back end held till the end of the turn when it slid out. I tried to correct and catch it with throttle but it was to late. I went around 180° and ended up on the left hand side of the entrance to the sweeping turn.

I would use turn numbers but the additional section on Mid O make the numbering scheme odd. By the turns completed from front straight it would be the exit of four I spun and the entrance to five.

Again I am pretty sure I had to much pressure in the rears. Though I was full stiff in the front shocks which seemed OK in morning qualifying but may have been the wrong way to go with the shocks.

I've installed a stock sway bar back onto the front of an ITA CRX before for a driver who just wasn't up to the experience/skill-level to safely handle the car without it, and it did exactly what the driver wanted. It took away the cars "twitchyness", made it go towards a push, and in general just made it easier to drive. The plan was to remove it after the owner got more experienced with the car and would desire more rotation, but he sold it before reaching that point. The cars current owner was an experienced ITA CRX driver, and so he has since removed it. So in my opinion, I would suggest that you do install the stock front bar and see if you like it. I'd then also suggest setting your shocks about right in the middle all the way around. Do those two things, and I bet you'll like it a lot more right off the bat. Then as you get faster and more comfortable with it, start lowing the front shock setting and increasing the rear (I'm assuming the shocks are single adjustable - rebound only). After that you might reach the level of pulling that front bar back out of there. For now though, I'd suggest just doing whatever you need to so you're comfortable in the car, and installing the front bar will do a lot in that regard.

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Originally Posted by darthmonkeyIT

The spin was in the additional bend added before the sweeping turn onto the back straight. The left hander out of there. I went in full tilt, got in a straight line and braked. Turned in and got into the power. The back end held till the end of the turn when it slid out. I tried to correct and catch it with throttle but it was to late. I went around 180° and ended up on the left hand side of the entrance to the sweeping turn.

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Sounds like the chicane - past the finish line, under the bridge at the T1 lefthander, then a short straight, then the right/left chicane before the 180* keyhole. That's a pretty busy spot - trying to settle the car after the fast right-hander, then hard on the brakes and maybe a downshift before the left-hand turn-in. I've spun there once or twice because I tried to do more than I could dip out of the talent well. Sounds like you didn't, but if you held the brake a little long there (during turn-in) that could have done it.