Open Top Cars and Roofs

I've a question for which the answer does not seem openly apparent to me. Miata's are allowed to run in the SCCA with hard tops attached. To my knowledge, the Jensen and the TR8 are not allowed to run with a hard top attached (there was a coupe version of the TR8, but not the Jensen. Each convertible version of the car has hard tops available for them).

Is there any specific reason why this is so? Or does anyone know if this is specifically allowed, maybe I missed it somewhere in the GCR that allows it on one sentence and it isn't mentioned again.

Thanks,
Ron

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited January 13, 2005).]

In fact, Ron, Miatas are *required* to run hard tops in IT; they have no choice. Miatas in IT are, for all intents and purposes, hard-top cars. Further, in Touring, the BMW zed-four was bumped from the '03 Runoffs over arguments of the timing and availability of the factory hard tops, as you were not allowed to run open there either (this was resolved in '04 by allowing specific aftermarket tops). I suspect, but have no evidence, that this is a concern over liability.

When IT was born, hard tops were a rarity for roadsters and convertibles. Sure, your Jensen had one, but it was unusual. It's something that enver came to the rulesmakers minds until the Miata showed up in the early 90s with the option.

Your car's top is not listed simply because it was probably not requested. I suggest that if you want to run a hard top, and you can prove that the hard top was either factory or is/was readily available, you could possibly get it approved. NEver know until you ask...

A BOD member, who is also a DA of Scruitneers, explained it to me. The Miata came to IT from Showroom Stock, where it was required to use the hardtop so retained it in IT. The old roadsters didn't come to IT from this direction so weren't allowed the top.
When he made us remove our hardtop,(perfectly by the rules) it slowed us 7 mph on straights and 3 seconds a lap. So, I suppose, allowing tops to be added would have to be considered a performance adjustment.

Which is really neat since in Spec Miata the ruls book says you MAY run with the top on. My read is you MAY also run topless.

Russ Myers
soon to be Spec Miata #?

You are correct. Spec Miata can run with or without top. Arm restraints must be used.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com

This is exactly why I asked. Aero has got to be horrible on my car and since tops were factory available and sold, it should be possible to get them allowed. I would not think the SCCA having a problem with allowing them since I have plently of proof of availability, but, it won't be easy for me to find a top - most times they are sold with a car attached and I don't need that part!

R

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
My electrons don't care if they flow through OEM wires, do yours?

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<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Further, in Touring, the BMW zed-four was bumped from the '03 Runoffs over arguments of the timing and availability of the factory hard tops,</font>

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Greg,

I think those were actually the SSB cars of Leithauser et. al.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

Since the "no hardtops" rule is a general one, it might be better to address that directly with a proposed change, rather than asking that an individual model be allowed to use one.

The trick might be in the language. (No surprise, huh?) To have any chance, it's probably going to require "stock, original equipment" lids or some such...

K

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Originally posted by rlearp:
This is exactly why I asked. Aero has got to be horrible on my car and since tops were factory available and sold, it should be possible to get them allowed. I would not think the SCCA having a problem with allowing them since I have plently of proof of availability, but, it won't be easy for me to find a top - most times they are sold with a car attached and I don't need that part!

R

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Would you revamp your cage if you were allowed to run the hard top? From you pictures, I can't see how it would fit as is.

Grafton

Yes, we (TR8 and Jensen) would have to. The main hoop would have to come down to fit the hardtop.

It is an expensive improvement but if the numbers are anywhere near the same as the Miata's....worth it obviously.

Jeff, the cage in my TR8 allows the hardtop to fit on. I tow with the hardtop. I do not think that the hardtop that was made for the tr8 would be suitable for racing. I could be wrong.

Not sure what you mean by suitable. The cage does the work in case something bad happens, the roof is not really an issue. It just needs to bolt on and stay there to deflect wind. The JH roof, I'm told, is a class A POS of the 1st degree. But, it doesn't need to do anything except stop air, which I'm told it sort of does. Sort of, that is.

I agree that the top is there to be a wind deflector. My point was, that with the Tr8 and the roof design and its mounting points. I wonder if it would be able to withstand the rear and tear of racing, let alone being in a accident. I know you would have to really bolt the thing down. I don't know how the JH design is. I not sure how much improvment there would be. I think that each car design would be different and the results would be different. I was surprised by the miata numbers with and without the roof. I do know that My TR8 convt does not give anyting to our TR8 coupe on the end of straights. As a personal note, I like the convrt in racing. I get a lower weight than our coupe, lower center of gravity, better visability(if you have ever raced a TR8 coupe with full cage you would understad), and besides chicks dig convrts.

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Originally posted by trd77:
I......and besides chicks dig convrts.

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And there are SO many hot single chicks hangin' at the track!

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Originally posted by lateapex911:

And there are SO many hot single chicks hangin' at the track!

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I've obviously been hangin' at the wrong tracks! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Perv, LOL.

BTW, (where are these tracks?)

Mont

From what I understand the car needed to have a factory hard top to be classified with one. You can run the Fiat X19 with or without a top and so can the Alfa Spider so their are some older cars that are allowed but they are few and far between.

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Sam Rolfe
TBR Motorsports
#85 ITC VW Rabbit being converted to LPHP
#85 GP Scirocco

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Originally posted by lateapex911:
And there are SO many hot single chicks hangin' at the track!

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Hey Jake, I thought it was BYO. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

What do you mean needed to have a hard top to be classified with one?

TR8s and Jensen Healeys both had factory hard tops available, just like a Miata, but not everybody bought one.

These were not options on a check sheet or in the VIN of the car, just something you bought with your car if you wanted.

TRD77 - how long of a straight? 4900' worth? I would think there would be a difference if hte straight is long. At VIR I would definitely thing aero comes into play for open top cars.

Ron

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Ron Earp
http://www.gt40s.com
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
My electrons don't care if they flow through OEM wires, do yours?

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited January 19, 2005).]

Ron, I am not sure of the exact lenght of the straighs. We ran at Indianapolis Raceway Park and Mid-Ohio. I would say the are long straights, maybe not Vir of Road America, but above average in length. I would agree that there are going to be a few tracks that this would come into play.