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After several suggestions that we need an oil cooler on our race car we purchased a TCI 10"x15" 8 pass cooler with a 10" electric fan mounted on it off ebay. It will be going on our 1990 Civic Si. How have most of you plumbed in your coolers? Did you use an oil filter relocation kit or just a pancake adaptor? We figure we will just hook the fan up to a toggle switch and when the oil temp goes up we can turn on the fan.
For what its worth, I ran a CRX for 10 years, probably 50 races including six 4 to 12 hour races without a oil cooler. Using Mobil 1, 10-30, bearings never showed distress. I changed the bearings every three years, and every time we did we kind of scratched our heads and wondered why we were replacing them. Others might disagree, but I never saw a reason to have a cooler on a CRX.
On that note, somebody forwarded this to me. Interesting reading on oil...
Stumbled on this interesting comments on motor oil.
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Author Topic: Oil is Killing our cars Part I (Read 171 times)Mike_the_Oldest
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By
Keith Ansell, President
Foreign Parts Positively, Inc. www.ForeignPartsPositively.com
360-882-3596
Oil is Killing our cars Part I
About a year ago I read about the reduction of zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP) in the oils supplied with API approval that could affect sliding and high pressure (EP) friction in our cars. The reduction of these chemicals in supplied oil was based on the fact that zinc, manganese and/or phosphates reduce the effectiveness and eventually damage catalytic converters and introduce minute amounts of pollutants into our atmosphere.
A month or so ago I had a member of the Columbia Gorge MG Club bring a totally failed camshaft and lifters back to me that had only 900 miles on them!! I immediately contacted the camshaft re-grinder and asked how this could happen. They were well aware of this problem as they were starting to have many failures of this type. In the past, the lack of a molybdenum disulfide camshaft assembly lubricant, at assembly, was about the only thing that could create this type of problem.
This got me on the phone to Delta Camshaft, one of our major suppliers. Then the bad news came out: It’s today’s “modern” API (American Petroleum Industry) approved oils that are killing our engines.
Next call: To another major camshaft supplier, both stock and performance (Crane). They now have an additive for whatever oil you are using during break-in so that the camshaft and lifters won’t fail in an unreasonably short period of time. They also suggest using a diesel rated oil on flat tappet engines.
To top this off: Our representative from a major supplier of performance and street engine parts (EPWI) stopped by to “warn us” of the problem of the NEW oils on flat tappet engines. This was a call that the representative was making only because of this problem to warn their engine builders! “The reduction of the zinc, manganese and phosphates are causing very early destruction of cams and followers”.
This problem is BIG! American Engine Rebuilder's Association (AERA) Bulletin #TB2333 directly addresses this problem. I had a short discussion with their engineer and he agreed with all that I had been finding.
Next phone call was to a retired engineer from Clevite, a major bearing and component manufacturer. First surprise was that he restored older British Motor bikes. The second surprise was that he was “VERY” aware of this problem because many of the old bikes had rectangular tappets that couldn’t rotate and are having a very large problem with the new oils. He has written an article for the British Bike community that verify all the “bad news” we have been finding.
Comp Cams put out “#225 Tech Bulletin: Flat Tappet Camshafts”. They have both an assembly lube and an oil additive. The telling sentence in the bulletin was “While this additive was originally developed specifically for break-in protection, subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use.
Next question: Now what do we do?
From the camshaft re-grinders (DeltaCam): “Use oils rated for diesel use”, Delo (Standard Oil product) was named. About the same price as other quality petroleum based oils. They are not API formulated and have the zinc dithiophosphate we need in weights we are familiar with. From the camshaft manufacturer (Crane): “use our additive” for at least the first 500 miles.
From General Motors (Chevrolet): add EOS, their oil fortifier, to your oil, it’s only about $12.00 for each oil change for an 8 ounce can (This problem seems to be something GM has known about for some time!).
From Redline Oil: Use our street formulated synthetics. They have what we need!
From our major oil distributor: Distributing Castro, Redline, Valvoline and Industrial oils: “After over a week of contacts we have verified that the major oil companies are aware of the problem”. “The representatives of the oil companies today are only aware of marketing programs and have no knowledge of formulation”. The only major oil companies they were aware of for doing anything to address this are Valvoline that is offering an “Off Road 20W-50” and Redline.
From Castrol: We are beginning to see a pattern emerging on older cars. It may be advantageous to use a non-approved lubricant, such as oils that are Diesel rated, 4 Cycle Motorcycle oils and other specified diesel oils.
Last question: So what are we at Foreign Parts Positively going to do? After much research we are switching to Redline Street rated oils and stocking the Castrol products that are diesel rated.
For the cars that use “engine oil” in their gearboxes this may even pose a problem as these additives that have been removed could be very critical in gear wear. We will be using oil specifically formulated for Manual Gearboxes with Brass Synchronizers. The only oils we are aware of that fit the criteria are from General Motors and Redline.
It is a lot easier if you use a remote oil filter mount and use an adapter on the original location. Use "aeroquip" hose and if you put the remote filter mount on the driver side frame rail it will be easier to change the filter. Plus you would then have the option of putting a accusump in line. Although Bob has had good luck, I strongly recommend them on all my customer cars. I agree Mobil 1 is the best option for both the engine and trans.
I mount the cooler in front of the radiator and only rely on the stock fan to assist at slow speeds.
The previous owner wasn't running any fans on the radiator. He said the header was too big so he took them out. We have the stock fan and plan on remounting it but it will be on the right side of the radiator. He is correct about the a/c fan, it won't fit because of the header. This oil cooler already had a small 10" fan mounted on it when we bought it. We thought that sense we can't run the a/c fan we would mount the cooler in front of the radiator on the left side and leave the 10" fan on it and run it off of a switch. Or does everyone think we should take the fan off and just run the cooler? Does anyone have pictures of how they mounted their remote filter and cooler? We will be running Mobil 1 also :D
If your cooling system (radiator) is in good condition, you don't need a fan on a race car. If you are in super hot climates, a fan may help after a session when the car is sitting in the paddock.
My oil cooler is plumbed into a sandwich adapter and I run the OEM oil filter in the stock location and also run Redline oil.
Or a 85°F (not too hot) day when you have a red flag on track.Quote:
Originally Posted by ITC Racer
I was considering the sandwich type adapter. I can see with the relocation kit we might be able to get to the filter a little easier (if there is enough room) and would also give us a bigger oil filter. The stock filters are pretty small. Unfortunately I just bought 3 new honda oil filters before we considered the oil cooler. I guess I can put them on ebay. We also want to be able to add an accumulator at a later date. I think the sandwich adapter I was looking at had four large threaded holes in it. I will be honest I am not sure how an accusump plumbs in. Does someone have pictures or diagrams?
Thanks Guy's for your help!
Here is a link to the photo's of how I mount an oil cooler (and accusump if desired)
http://raceshop.sbmsinc.com/aeroquip.htm
The previous owner sent me a incar video and i could see the oil temp gauge and by the end of the race the oil temp was around 275-280 degrees! This thing needs fans and an oil cooler, both of which we are going to be installing. Good thing he was running synthetic! What kind of oil temps are you guys running?Quote:
Originally Posted by ITC Racer