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Which would be more useful and why - open bed truck or SUV? Having never owned such a thing but comtemplating ownership I'm looking for opinions on each, pros and cons.
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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!
Went through this one last year. Of course, my tow vehicle also doubles as semi-daily driver, so that colors things.
I looked at pickups and SUVs. Pluses and Minuses:
Pickups.
1. Generally (although not by much) cheaper.
2. Diesel availability is greater, which is a plus for towing but potentially a negative for daily driver.
3. Stick shifts available (a plus for me).
4. More are 4X4 (a plus for me).
5. Bed more useful for weekend house work.
6. Most offered in crew cab versions with four doors, so can carry four adults in comfort.
7. Not too hard to sell to g/friend or wife.
8. Biggest minus for me was that anything I hauled would be exposed to the elements. Since I have an open trailer, this is a problem.
SUV
1. I hate SUVs.
2. Most can't tow for shit, unless you go plus size (although this is changing).
3. Harder to get a diesel.
4. Better seating, mmore comfortable cabin.
5. Enclosed storage space.
6. Gas mileage is atrocious.
7. Easiest to sell to g/friend/wife.
I ended up (as you know) with a 3/4 ton 454 Suburban, which can tow 10,000 lbs and with the back two seats out/down can carry as much as a cargo van. I like it except it is a Chevy and breaks, and it gets 10 mpg. If I had a closed trailer, I definitely would have gone pickup, especially since I got the "other" car to drive most days with now.
Which leads me to my last point: if your g/friendw/ife can stomach it, a cargo van is the way to go. Cheap (as in you can get a decent one for a couple grand). Can double as a weekend yard warrior. Enclosed. Can sleep in it. Hauls a lot, etc.
If you are going open trailer on a budget, cargo van is probably the way to go.
What is the price difference on an enclosed trailer vs. open? Lots?
Julie would go for either because she looks at it as a way to get the house stuff done that neither of us have a car to do. You'd have laughed like hell if you'd seen me at Lowes yesterday trying to stuff that pressure washer into the M3. Not funny. Even had two guys offer to help, but I think they did it for amusement purposes, not to actually help me!
That Dodge SUV can tow pretty well with the short axle ratio and the 6L motor. Enclosed, and, if the seats would come out not bad. But, not on a budget. And, like you I prefer to have a manual tranny but nothing with power really offers that, sans some big Ford diesels that I don't want or need.
Your car is pretty good for towing, no issues there. And, I like the idea of having something to sleep in, that is important. I can't see hoteling it all the time, especially if the hotels aren't too near the track.
Fun stuff to contemplate!
Ron
You like British cars.
Range Rover.
OK, right...dumb idea! So...
VW Toureg with the V10 TDI diesel. IT will pull the trailer with a tree chained to the back of the trailer.
If the 15K surgarge for the V10 is a bit much, I am told the V8 is a 6th gear puller, if you keep the load under control.
Of course, the interior is so nice it's a shame to load leaky gearboxes in it.
So. in the "real world"...
If you have an enclosed trailer, a good pick up is the choice. Open trailer means a box of some kind.
We submited at the same time....so, you want to sleep at the track in it? Uh oh. Get an enclosed trailer. Cars suck to sleep in!
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited September 06, 2004).]
Range Rover bad!
I had a thought - a early Bronco or similar. But, then I had another thought - with a British car to race, being new, I don't need problems with a tow truck. So, I need something relatively new.
I am going to check out those serial killer vans. That might just be the ticket.
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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!
Assuming low-end, single car, enclosed trailer - how much would one cost compared to an open? I know a steel open can be $1000 or so, used, aluminum open looks to be around $2500-3500.
Are enclosed trailers twice that?
I agree with Jeff - if the trailer was enclosed I'd not worry about a truck and definitely choose that over an SUV.
R
I have an 2004 Interstate West 16' x 7' ramp door with the millenium package (ATP stone guard on front, ATP on tongue, spare tire, inside lights, roof vent, outside loading lights, RV style side door, 4 floor d-rings and 4 wall d-rings, rear stabilizer jacks, torsion spring axles with brakes on both, with sales tax and CA DMV fees it was about $4500.
My friend bought, from the same dealer, a 2004 Interstate West 20' x 102" Car Hauler (4 ft longer, 18" wider, larger side door, and finished ceiling with two roof vents...no ATP, no spare, no rear loading lights or d-rings in the walls. Hers was about $5200. Quite a bit more trailer for only $700 more, but it was more than my tow vehicle could haul comfortably.
Interstate West is middle of the road price/quality.
I also looked at PACE, Haulmark, Featherlite, TPD, Carson and AZ-Tek.
The Featherlite and TPD were much more.
The PACE and Haulmark were a little more expensive. Even at the same price I would have bought the Interstate. I liked the interior finish more in one, and the exterior more in the other. I didn't dislike either on the Interstate.
The Carson Racer model was about the same price and I felt, much poorer quality.
The AZ-Tek was considerably cheaper both in price and quality.
I towed with an open trailer for close to 15 years, never understanding why someone would spend 'so much' on a trailer and not put it in the car or seat time. Now I know. 1--storing the race car in the trailer versus inside the garage frees up garage space=happy wife who can now park her car in the garage instead of in the driveway means less hassle on money going towards the race car. 2--Keeping all of your stuff in the trailer saves so much time packing and unpacking. Less stress when trying to load up and get on the road. Quicker to put the trailer away and get a shower, go to bed after a long weekend. 3--You won't have stuff blow out of the trailer, or be exposed to the weather. 4--When at the track you have a place to get out of the weather. 5--You are less likely to forget something if you never take it out of the trailer to begin with.
Drawbacks--you MUST resist the temptation to leave the car in the trailer until a week before the next race.
You MUST be pretty confident that it and all your belongings are pretty safe where it is stored.
They are harder on your tow vehicle.
I don't know why it took me so long to do it...yes I do, I am a tighta$$. The only way I'd ever go back to an open trailer was if I went rally racing...I don't want a service crew dragging an enclosed trailer to some of the places they might need to.
While I am on my soapbox, feeling like anyone gives a rats' a$$ about what I am saying, get a truck and use the change for an enclosed trailer.
Bingo- I love my enclosed.
I rarely put my tent up anymore.
Best thing i've done in awhile.
I have a smaller 22' that is an older Pace. Cosmetics are't wonderful, but as my friend Dick points out, nobody will steal it this way!
A friendly racer was very fair in the pricing. I doubt you can find many as low used....I would expect the common low price for a workable enclosed is about $2500.
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
I had a look around at truck offerings on the web and I do say I'm disappointed. I might be wrong, but it appears to me that nobody offers a diesel truck that isn't supersized as in F250, 350, and GM/Dodge equalivalents. That is just too big for my tastes to use as a daily driver.
I also thought about the Toureg from VW but it is small on the inside and DAMN expensive for the diesel - $65k nicely appointed. No way I'm spending that sort of cash on a car!
I wish Ford still made a full size Bronco, I always liked them since they weren't too big but had a lot of room inside. Especially since the rear seat came out giving you a completely flat floor. Could even remove the passenger seat for some additional storage.
Julie shot down the serial killer van, so, no dice there. Back to SUVs and trucks, but she hates SUVs so a truck is certainly in the running. Ford or Dodge, can't bring myself to buy the General since I'm a Ford man from way back. too bad the PowerSmoke isn't put into a normal size truck.....hmmm.....a project......
[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited September 07, 2004).]
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<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...nobody offers a diesel truck that isn't supersized as in F250, 350, and GM/Dodge equalivalents.</font>
Diesels are considered heavy-duty engines, thus the heavy-duty chassis. In fact, my '93 7.3L long block engine weighs about 950 pounds buck naked. It would be a Very Bad Idea to try and use a light-duty truck for heavy-duty tasks...
Whydoes the chassis capability matter? The F150 body/chassis is the same size as the comparably-equipped F350; why do you say they're "super-sized"? There ARE SWB and LWB F350 PSDs out there without the crew cab, you just have to keep your eyes peeled. Don't rule out the earlier non-PSD late-'93/'94 turbodiesels, either; with minimal mods those trucks will put out more torque than the later PSDs.
Quote:
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Back to SUVs and trucks, but she hates SUVs so a truck is certainly in the running.</font>
How not a diesel Excursion or Suburban? Yeah, it's an SUV, but - REALLY - it's nothing more than a pickup truck with a bed cap (which you'll probably put on anyway) and extra seats and accessibility. When you compare an SUV to a pickup with a cap, they're pretty much similar. Hell, get one and TELL her it's a pickup with a cap...<grin>
GA
I have an F150 Super Crew (full four doors) and an open trailer. I put a truck box on the front of the trailer where I put all the nasty stuff. I also put the back seats down in the truck which makes it a very big flat surface and put the tool box, luggage, safety gear, etc. In the bed, I put stuff in totes plus tires and other things that are OK to get wet.
When not racing,
I can fit a yard of mulch, a big load to go to the dump, bikes, lawn tractor, snow blower, 4x8 plywood and can carry 6 people comfortably!!
It's also my daily driver.........
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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi
[This message has been edited by JLawton (edited September 07, 2004).]
I migth be doing something wrong but I just want a basic truck you know - 4 wheels, two axles, 4 wheel drive. With a diesel motor, that seems to not exist, but maybe I'm doing something wrong. Seems when I try to build a diesel then suddenly it throws me into a crew cab, which, is might big in comparison to a normal truck. This is what I was talking about by "Super Sized" truck. A truck, with a normal bed and 4 doors, is not the same size as a truck with two doors.
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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!
I carry fuel with me, so open bed P/U for me.
Cheers.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Ron. I have a '03 F250 Powerstroke deisel, extended cab, short bed. It is the same overall length as an Excursion. The extended cab is handy for the occaisional third person and also for locking up small personal stuff. And it costs quite a bit less than an Excursion deisel (and a lot easier to find). I drive it everyday and it gets used as a shop vehicle during the day. Yup it's a little on the big side but I can park it just about anywhere a full size car can park. Now then when it comes to towing, This thing is the dogs bollocks!! Up the grapevine with #7000 enclosed trailer, 100 degrees outside, A/C on inside and the cruise control set at 75MPH!! I was passing most cars. All that and 12 MPG towing. Did I say I love my truck.
John
I stopped by the Ford dealer while at lunch. F150s are big - I'm only 5'8" on a good day and I can just barely see in the bed. Why are these damn things so tall? There is a foot of space between the tire and the body!!!
I asked about diesel 150s with standard dimensions and they looked at me like I stepped off a spaceship. Whay would anyone want that I was asked? I was always taught the customer is right and you should help them, not call them crazy. However, there were some 150s with the 5.4 liter motor, with standard beds and short doors in the back, that were tolerable. Had a damn nice interior, that is for sure, just like an SUV.
Also had a nice Lightning truck which I'm sure most of us know. Nicer size than the big ones, but old style interior and two wheel drive (which is probably okay where I live).
I've got lots of time, just looking at options. Have to see what is in the Dodge camp.
Ron
I just got a Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab with the Hemi and 3.92 rear gears (with off-road package). Tows nicely (open trailer with tire rack). Loaded up the bed with messy stuff for the last race, tool box and other "clean stuff" went inside. Fits 6 adults in the cab when not loaded with race gear (actually has 6 seat belts - including a center rear shoulder belt). I test drove a 2500 when I was looking (diesels are only available in 2500 and 3500 - at a >$5000 premium), but the ones on the lots around here all have snowplow prep packages and drive like buckboards - stiffer springs and solid front axles I think. If I was doing more events, or going further afield more often, then I would have considered the 2500 (could get 4.11 gears in a Quad Cab 2500 with the Hemi, not in the 1500). With the number of events I do, and how I plan to use the truck when not racing, I opted for the more comfortable ride of the 1500 - even with its reduced capacity. I figure the truck I have now will be fine even if I upgrade to a small-ish enclosed trailer without needing to upgrade the truck.
-noam
Ron--Ford Diesels are in the F250 and F350.
One of the reasons I passed on the Ford Diesel was the height. Even at over 6' tall, I thought I could use a parachute to get out of it.
Went with the Chevy 2500HD Diesel.
Fabulous truck!
I am going to kick around and look at those trucks, especially the Dodge but I'll check both. You are exactly right on the Fords - damn things are tall and I'm not. I mean, I could not even reach into the bed and touch the bottom, thus, getting a heavy toolbox out from the sides would be a no go for me. Ditto something like a tire, that would lie flat but be heavy. No chance, I'm just too short.
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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!
"Fords are high". Yes, I do agree but there is a solution. For an F150, buy a lowering kit ($400) and then add a air bag kit ($280) and you will not have any towing problems.
The thing rides as nice or even nicer than factory. Also, I would recommend the air bag as a load assist system for any vehicle (truck or SUV) that either tows or hauls lots of stuff.
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Richy Gonzalez
GB Racing - #24 ITA CRX
LAMIN-X Protective Films
I drive my truck every day, and the bigger springs etc of the 2500 and 3500 series would just pound the chassis into a box of rattels in no time. So I got a 1500. Air bags are the smart choice though, just pump 'em up when you need 'em.
And...I think people over estimate the "Need" for 4WD. If you live in part of the country where a big strom is occasional, then I would forgo it. Too much extra weight, and crap to go wrong, ruins the ride (unsprung weight,,jeez these things are heavy enough already) and kills what meager gas mileage they get.
And the 4 wheel drive ones are always higher. Seems like everybody thinks its "better" way up in the air, so you can drive over stumps and boulders. Do you do that? Most of us don't but the average buyers ego thinks he does....
So, get the best engine you can find in a extended cab (the interior space IS needed) and a set of bags. If you have $ left over, bolt on a supercharger!
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]