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I'm going to be changing tow vehicals from my S10 to an 89 fored E350. Anyhoo, I'm going to need a new brake controller. My previous one came with the trailer but I'm going to sell it with the truck. Anyone know of a good make/model or a good place to get one?
Thanks
Ben
LOL/IT7
Ben:
I got mine at the local Farm & Fleet (Fleet Farm by you). Decent price and I had it right away. So far, I've had no problems with it and I'd recommend it for ease of use.
Someone has mentioned a wireless setup and that would be the cat's meow...
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
I just purchased a new Prodigy from Tekonsha.
I had been using their "Commander" which worked OK, but they do not make it any longer.
The neat thing about the Commander was you just mounted it on velcro on top of the dash and removed it when you were not towing.
I got the Prodigy for $105.00, which is kind of pricey for a controller (usually controllers are in the $50 range).
Cheers.
I've had several different brake controllers, and my opinion is that 'simpler is better'. Had some of the 'electronic' ones with digital read-outs and cappuchino-makers, and they just sucked (they'd overload, and just quit working, which SUCKS anyway that you'd look at it !). I've got a digital Draw-tite and some other piece of trash sitting on the shelf, removed after 3 months use. If you want it, I'd be happy to sell it to you, if you sign a waiver releasing me of all liability.
Tekonsha Voyager (or equivalent) is tops, IMO. Will handle anything up to 3 axles w/brakes on all of'em. You can get a GREAT brake controller for $50-70.
Would someone explain how a brake controller works? I'm a little unclear on the mechanics.
Thanks
Eric
From looking at how mine hooks up, of course it isn't working http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif the little electronics say I have a bad or stuck magnet? But what I believe happens is that once you press the brake pedal in your tow vehicle, the brake lights come on. This 12 power supply is fed into the brake control unit. The unit then uses this as an On/Off switch for the brakes on the trailer. The pressure applied to the trailer brakes is set by an adjustment (0-100%) on the brake controler.
Any one else's thoughts?
I'm a fan of the Tekonsha Prodigy, but I like all that electronic stuff...<grin>
Not too complex, although my explanation may make it seem so...I'm going to assume we're talking about electric trailer brakes.Quote:
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Would someone explain how a brake controller works?</font>
Electric trailer brakes are drum brakes, just like any car. The difference, however, is that the shoes are activated by electric solenoids rather than hydraulic slave cylinders. They're variable solenoids, also: put 14V on the solenoid and it pushes the shoes against the drums as hard as it possibly can; less voltage results in less "push" and therefore less trailer braking force. Zero volts and the shoes are retracted.
The brake controller is a device that is usually attached up front on or under the dashboard. It has four basic wires: keyed ignition power, connected to vehicle power; ground, to vehicle ground; a brake sense wire, connected to the brake switch; and trailer brake, going all the way back to the trailer brake solenoids.
What happens is that the brake controller senses when the driver is applying the brakes by the brake sense wire, and the controller then adjusts the voltage to the trailer brakes appropriately. Obviously, the controller cannot slam the full 14 volts to the trailer when you apply the truck brakes, otherwise you'd lock up the trailer brakes, so it has to modulate the voltage to the trailer. It does so with one of two major ways: time and g-forces.
The time-based ones sense when you apply the brakes and slowly ramp up the voltage to the trailer brakes to a pre-set level; you manually adjust both the max voltage level and the ramp-up speed. The g-force ones detect the longitudinal g-force of the braking and adjusts the trailer voltage appropriately: harder braking results in higher voltage to the trailer brakes. It, too, allows max voltage adjustment and an adjustment for zero g.
I've seen others in the past, such as one that tees into the hydraulic brake line, using brake fluid pressure to modulate voltage, however today's electronic controllers are much more efficient than those old dinosaurs (and significantly easier to install and use).
Regardless of which one you prefer, it's important to understand its function and how to adjust it properly, with both a loaded and unloaded trailer; for max efficiency you will be required to adjust the controller's max voltage, ramp-up, and zero-g each time you use it, and each time you change the load on the trailer, and it would not be unusual for you to adjust it during the trip for changing road conditions.
Make sense?
GA
On a related side note, breakaway kits work the same way, except they're ON/OFF switches: if your trailer comes free, the cable will pull the pin out of the breakaway switch, fully closing the circuit to the onboard 12V battery. The trailer brakes will be activated full ON and max trailer braking will be applied. If your trailer is loaded properly at 10-20% tongue weight, and you're lucky, the trailer will skid to a stop straight ahead and you can feel stupid while retrieving your ride.
Remember to check those hitch pins, clips, and safety latches, boys and girls.
Also, if your trailer brakes seemed locked, make sure to check that the breakaway switch is working properly; the switch might be stuck closed for whatever reason.
GA
Greg,Quote:
Originally posted by grega:
...The g-force ones detect the longitudinal g-force of the braking and adjusts the trailer voltage appropriately: harder braking results in higher voltage to the trailer brakes.
...it would not be unusual for you to adjust it during the trip for changing road conditions.
Since you seem to be pretty well versed in their operation and I have a Prodigy, I have an observation that perhaps you can comment on.
I find that while braking uphill the trailer brakes offer very little assistance. Perhaps the g-potentiometer thingy thinks I am not stopping as fast as I am due to the fact that it is now oriented uphill. I also find that when going down hill the trailer braking is extra strong. Perhaps the g.p.t thinks that I am stopping much faster then I really am, again due to the unit being out of level.
These would be good side effects; more braking downhill, less braking uphill. However, it would be nice if there was some logic programmed into the thing that says if the g.p.t is reading some amount of -acceleration but the brake switch is not closed we are going downhill.
My complaint is when coasting/cruising down a steep pass at 70mph in Drive and building speed I don't want to have to keep touching the brake to scrub speed, having the trailer give the whole rig a nice jerk.
I am reluctant to turn the brake controller all the way down when going downhill just in case I need to stop quickly.
Comments?
[This message has been edited by Quickshoe (edited May 19, 2004).]
Quickshoe, given that the Prodigy is a g-force-based controller, the behavior you describe is to be expected, and as you note, in a lot of ways preferred.
Unfortunately, all it does is measure g-force along the longitudinal axis of the truck. The initial setting you make, the one where you adjust the left side control, is simply zeroing the unit when you're stationary and horizontal. The right side adjuster - the only one you want to adjust while moving - is the max voltage control. So, when the truck is not horizontal, the unit has no way to determine if that longitudinal g-force is due to braking or gravity. Off-hand, I really can't think of a way they really could do it.
The Prodigy (any controller, actually) should not be applying the trailer brakes at any time if you're not on the truck brakes.
Some controllers, usually the time/rate-based ones, have an external lever built into them where you can manually control the trailer brakes separate from the truck. This is a good thing to have if you want to only apply the trailer brakes or if your trailer starts fish-tailing; without touching the truck brakes (and possibly causing a jack-knife) you can apply the trailer brakes to get the trailer back in line (and then pull over to readjust your load forward).Quote:
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...when coasting/cruising down a steep pass at 70mph in Drive and building speed I don't want to have to keep touching the brake to scrub speed...</font>
One thing you want to avoid is having "too much brake" on the truck relative to the trailer, expecially going downhill. You want the trailer to actually pull on the truck a little bit under braking, otherwise you risk having the trailer try to pass the truck. On the other hand, you don't want more brake on the trailer than the trailer tires can handle, otherwise you'll lock the trailer brakes and flat-spot 'em (and you'll want to turn the controller down or off when the trailer is empty for the same reason).Quote:
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...reluctant to turn the brake controller all the way down when going downhill just in case I need to stop quickly.</font>
In general, as I depart for a trip I set the Prodigy to level it as described in the instructions, then I adjust the voltage control initially as described. Then, for the first few stops on the way out of town I try to find the max braking the trailer tires can handle, and adjust the voltage down a tad bit. I'm driving a 1-ton Ford van, so the truck itself has good brakes, but I still like to have the trailer doing its fair share of the braking load.
From there I'll adjust the trailer brakes for the conditions, such as reducing trailer brakes in the rain. I'd consider reducing the trailer brakes on the downhills if it's too harsh, but I don't want to do it too much in case some bozo pulls out in front of me...
GA
I just installed a Jordan Ultima 2020. This seemed to be the prefered unit on some of the RV forums. It differs from the Prodigy in that it has a cable that connects to the brake pedal to vary the voltage applied.
It also has a diagnostic feature to identify problems, as well as an LED to verify conection to the trailer.
Most importantly, it works better than any of my previous controllers. $120 is a little pricy, but worth it for peace-of -mind.
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"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series
My brake controller is a POS. Its electronic, I got it at the Tractor Supply Company. Its a Hoppy 37225 electronic brake controller.
When I stop, it keeps a very constant braking pressure. Even when I come to a complete stop, it is at the same pressure. When I release the brake pedal (as from a stop light) it releases just after the truck starts moving again, causing a big jaring motion.
Other than that, I guess it works fine.
One hint on install (I learned this from Chris Albin).. Buy a extension cord that uses the wire guage needed for the brake controller. It is nice stranded cable, it is well protected, and you can have extra cables runing to the back if you want a 12v hookup for lights or winch.
Alan
Couldn't resist responding to a mention of the "dinosaur" Hydraulic/electric controllers of the past. Actually the reason for their demise was the advent of ABS, which also varies hydraulic pressure.
They absolutely do not work with ABS. Controller manufacturers stopped the manufacture of hydraulic units to end any litigation from problems caused by their use with ABS.
In terms of function, they actually varied trailer braking in direct proportion to the pedal pressure applied to the tow vehicle. There was an initial point of shoe contact when the brake lights were activated, then the braking was modulated to the hydraulic pressure.
I've used them extensively, and prefer them to the all-electrical units, especially for their modulation. I miss mine.
Just thought I'd add to the information bank.
Good racing.
Bill
Ya want one that interfaces with your master cylinder?
http://www.brakesmart.net/brakesmart.htm
Get out your checkbook..... (Around $300, I believe).
Love my Tekonsha Prodigy - especially after the el-cheapo Farm/Fleet style.
Jarrod
Mine is wireless.
In the trailer I have a 12V battery. (Needed it anyway) And a controller box. In the truck, there is a controller, which plugs into the cig lighter.
Now, I can use ANY truck to tow my trailer, as long as it has a hitch and light hook up.
The 12 volt batt supplies the braking force, it gets recharged off the running lights which must be on at all times.
Its very cool.
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Next time I'm chasing Jake down to Atlanta, I'm gonna bring a tunable wireless transmitter and see what kinda fun I can have...
http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
What brand/model? What do I search for to find out more?Quote:
Originally posted by lateapex911:
Mine is wireless.
...
Its very cool.
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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR
I love testing brake lights on other cars, too. Since I'm a professionamable RF N-Gin-Ear, I've got a great little battery-operated gizmo that sets off radar detectors. Hours of fun, and makes those long tows more entertaining.Quote:
Originally posted by grega:
Next time I'm chasing Jake down to Atlanta, I'm gonna bring a tunable wireless transmitter and see what kinda fun I can have... http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
"You're never too old to be immature" - JohnRW, May 2004
I am a big fan of the Tekonsha Prodigy too. I have also heard good things about the Jordan as well. Here is a link for the Prodigy for $99 http://rvwholesalers.com/catalog/customer/...0dce8eb882d00d8
I had one of those cheap controllers and hated them. Tekonsha also sells a connector that will allow plug and play for most trucks that have a trail harness in the truck.
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Enjoy,
Bill
Nice try nerd boy, but I gotta think it isn't RF...I'm betting multiplex....Quote:
Originally posted by grega:
Next time I'm chasing Jake down to Atlanta, I'm gonna bring a tunable wireless transmitter and see what kinda fun I can have...
http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
Pretty funny if my brakes locked up passing houses where the door openers were being used!
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Here you go-Quote:
Originally posted by Eagle7:
Quote:
Originally posted by lateapex911:
Mine is wireless.
...
Its very cool.
What brand/model? What do I search for to find out more?
http://www.carlislebrake.com/
It seems advanced in its normal operation, none of that herky jerky stuff.
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Yikes - $400+. Looks nice though.Quote:
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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR