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"oem gear sets that fit w/o modification...."
so...since I'm the idiot building the 1.5 L stl car, I want trans to be as good as possible....
does this , to you guys, mean I can grab and OEM 1-2-3-4-5 gear individually, and make my own ratios, or ,that I need to use an OEM 1-2-3-4-5 AS they came, in some oe trans....no picky-choosy
I can make up reasons that it can be interpreted either way
The intent is to allow you to pick and choose gears individually.
If you think that needs a verbiage clarification, send in a letter and we'll correct it.
GA
YAY! Haha
thanks greg.
Why did I think that I asked the same question and learned it was "gear set" as in, "all of the gears in the set" as in "no picky-choosey?"
Memory is getting worse and worse I guess...
K
Well, it could be my memory that is failing. But I seem to recall a committee discussion where we changed the regs a season or two, and the intent was to allow mix-and-match of gears as long as they slipped on without mods.
Send a letter for us to discuss, just in case.
Doesn't the GCR define "gearset"?
if not, then mix n match should be okay.
what combo of gears are you looking at?
"gear sets " is how its actually written...2 words
I'm currently looking at ZC 3-4-5, the 4.7 I have, one of the quaifes I have... I'm getting the engine running first, then I'll drop the trans and play with it over the winter
When we wrote "gear sets" I believe we intended that to mean gear pairs, meaning you can mix-and-match gear ratios within the box.
Write a letter to be sure.
GA
written. Thanks !
adam,
look for a 4spd and use that 1-2 set with ZC 3-4-5 or ZC 3 Si 4 ZC 5. puts 2-5 in a good tight range. same setup works wonders in the FP hatch with a 4.7 and quaiffe, ~150 whp, huge drag.
FP car use oem-height tires? Looking at gear calculators, yeah.....this is a great combo... thanks! As soon as I decided STL was what I wanted to try, I bought a 4speed, HF, and zc box . HahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Chip42
My thought was the previous interpretation was "Gear set" = all of the gears in the case.
i.e. you can stick a NB Miata gearset into a RX7 box. the whole gearset, not just 1 or 2 gears. However, that was a year or two ago and the phiolsophy may have changed now. Write the letter as Greg mentioned (and you did.)
Please post response.
3-5 is about all you need during he race but a good #2 for the green flag is necessary as well!
I find myself increasingly uninterested in answers to questions like this...
K
15in wheels, 23ish inch diameter rolling on slicks, 4.7. Maxes out 5th and still uses 2nd on tight corners. 13in wheels and smaller dial tires get nearly the same wheel speeds from a 4.25 final.Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjabaay
I also thought STL specifically only allowed complete box range swaps, AND that the difference between STU and STL language on the matter was the proof of that. Rules could have been merged, more and more I also have lost interest in the class, despite it being what I always wanted to see: limited prep rules allowing engine swaps in same make chassis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knestis
that sounds about perfect....Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip42
not doing anything until the official answer.... But I'll have them ready to go
People are only getting these changes because they're asking for them...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip42
Ding...and because rulesmakers are not willing to say "no"...Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
They're sure saying "no" to a normal sized TIR on the SR20DET! :dead_horse:
December 2012 GCR:
Either the OEM transmission or an alternate transmission must be
used; the alternate transmission must be from the same manufacturer
as the vehicle (e.g., an Acura transmission may be installed
in a Honda car). Alternate transmissions must be used in their
entirety. Retrofitting OEM complete gear sets in an alternate transmission
case is permitted.
August 2014 GCR:
Either the original transmission or an alternate transmission must
be used; the alternate transmission must be from the same manufacturer
as the vehicle (i.e., an Acura transmission may be installed
in a Honda car). Alternate transmissions must be used in their
entirety; any OEM gear sets that fit w/o any modifications to gears,
shafts, and/or case are permitted.
The change came as a request from the CRB.
I think the verbiage change clearly implies gear pairs can be mixed and matched. We'll see what the STAC/CRB says.
GA
Hard to say "no" to something that doesn't exist... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
It's not going to exist until you take the handcuffs off. not going to spend money to build something that's hobbled from day 1. I'll never have the cash to build a 'full-tilt' engine to prove it can't make equivalent power, and until that's done the old stodgies that hate JDM are going to continue to keep the handcuffs on a 20 yr old engine. can't win that one, so not going to try.
:shrug:
this is the part of "The Process" in IT that drove a number of people off, unhapily. there has to be some noise cancelation, the rulesmakers can't be jumping at every request by moving specs up and down, but there also needs to be a reasonable threshold to being taken seriously. when ONLY full tilt builds will be accepted for review (or when the perception is that this is the case), those who simply can't afford that effort are left out to dry with what are often reaosnable requests for adjustment or review. The difference between a good build and a great build is not a huge amount of peak hp in most cases, just a lot of reliability, driveability (area under the curve), etc... and it adds up to lower lap times more than winning the race on the dyno.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
the ST non USDM market rules adding weight or reducing TIR size "just because foreign" is not good practice. Yes, there are specific cases (i.e. powerplants or chassis) where such penalties ARE warranted and I think any reasonable person would agree to them. but not blanket application to all items sharing a non technical detail. have your cake and eat it, too. Matt has every right to feel that way, IMHO. no one should be asked to prove a negative, and anyone who is has good reason to feel slighted.
Neither the CRB nor the STAC (nor I) has made a proclamation that "no" consideration will be made until data on a full-tilt build is presented to them.
However, there's absolutely zero point in making chances until someone builds one*.
We can always go back to "US market engines only" if it'll make people feel better...that way there's no ambiguity.
GA
* If you truly believe that 2mm of TIR will make that much of a difference, enough so that you'll not even consider building it, then IMO it's not going to be a competitive package anyway...
"Gear sets" are the entire package, not each gear pair. per rule 2014 spec.
. Otherwise you penalise the car with non splined gear boxes.
i couldnt find any definition for "gear sets" in the GCR....
so we'll wait for the clarification, i guess.....your interpretation obviously differs from many others....but i can see both directions (or i wouldnt have made this post, and thus written a letter)
I see/saw it all the time when people are/were asking for help for a particular car. "we believe that engine will make 30%. you only make 25% so you must be doing something wrong. keep trying and come back when you spend more money and still can't make 30%."Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amy
This engine with a stock T28 turbo will NEVER be competitive with 20-year newer technology and way better turbos, but it's a farsight better than the current KA that's sucking air through a crappy intake manifold and tiny throttle body that can't be changed. My plan for an SR20 build was intended as a cheap way to get CLOSER to the competition, and I don't intend to build it to the limits. However, if its going to just be choked down from day 1 then why even bother spending thousands only to still get beat by the same people that already beat me?
I'll quit beating the dead horse and let these guys get back to the topic- it's not going to get me anywhere anyway..
letter reviewed and response out on 20th...excellent
Based on the prelims, sounds like you can mix and match....
Is that how you read it?
Yup.