Will the rules allow me to remove the battery box located in the rear in my 2004 Mini Cooper S to allow for a straight exhaust pipe?
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Will the rules allow me to remove the battery box located in the rear in my 2004 Mini Cooper S to allow for a straight exhaust pipe?
Can't answer that specific question but I'd be interested in hearing more about the build. Was it an old SSB car?
My initial thought is "no", but I'd like to learn more. Is this a box that extends down from the trunk floor, like a regular spare tire well? do you have any photos to illustrate?
My thought is NO you can't. I almost think you want to have it because it's got a nice factory heat shield that bolts to it that could be considered a bit of a factory Diffuser. (better then the big parachute of a rear bumper my car has). But if someone were to get really Anal that would mean they would start with a cooper instead of an S and just call it a day.
Greg, Yes the Box extends down from the floor in the rear into the spare tire area. The Coopers Do not have it. It's pretty well the ONLY difference in the actual body between a cooper and a Cooper S. The battery box changes shape some what thoughout the years. Not sure why mini made changes but an 04 exhaust won't fit an 05 due to the battery box being a different shape. The other major difference is that the Cooper doesnt' have a hood scoop and therefore has a more aerodynamic hood. All the Cooper S stuff bolts right into a cooper.
Greg, I'd like to ask on the Cooper S. Could someone run a Cooper S GP. It's a limited addition that is an S JCW with some nice aero body work (including a full underbelly pan factory). And therefore if the GP is legal for the class could a regular S then receive all the GP body work since it's really just bolt on parts. Or what would someone need to do to run the GP goodies rather then cutting up a rather rare street car that has no real difference to a regular S other then a ported cylinder head (changeable in STU) and a Pulley (JCW pulley already allowed) and bolt on body work. I do believe the Grand-Am Mini's run the Full GP body work. Including the GP rear suspension which swaps the rear trailing arm for a aluminum one also found in the 2007 and newer Mini's running the peugeot engine.
Ian
Then I suggest it's compliant to remove it. Remember, there's no VIN rule, and no requirement to start with any specific body when you install an engine. So if it's not there on the non-S, then you can legitimately remove it in the S, and just claim you started with a non-S...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrsideways
Compliant, IMO. Any car delivered in the US can be used, and you can install any compliant engine. And, you can install the GP goodies on a regular car and call it a GP.Quote:
Could someone run a Cooper S GP. It's a limited addition that is an S JCW with some nice aero body work (including a full underbelly pan factory). And therefore if the GP is legal for the class could a regular S then receive all the GP body work since it's really just bolt on parts.
GA
Ok this one maybe a long shot but along the same lines the mini is currently speced as saying it can run the jcw pulley but with stock injectors. Could one claim to start with a jcw and therefore run the larger injectors that come with the jcw stock?
Crap. Now that you mention it, I think I'm wrong. Supercharged cars are a special case, in that they're specifically allowed on the table. And, the regs state you can't mix-and-match engines from cars on the table (i.e., you can't take another car and install a table-approved engine). So, I don't think you can run anything with a supercharged engine except the Cooper S.
On the other hand, batteries are allowed to be relocated in Super Touring, and I think it's reasonable within the regs to remove the stock battery box(es) when you do that. For example, I removed my battery box/mount from the engine compartment on my Integra. And, I don't think anyone will give a fudge about removing a battery box.
Not an official word, but I suggest you're good.
I don't recall any specific reason why the whole JCW package wasn't approved. Could the reason be that the requester only requested the pulley and not the injectors? What kind of power does that engine make? What's its potential when built to STU specs? Maybe a request to add the base Cooper chassis, JCW, and GP packages to the spec line are in order? Support it with power data, as that will be the determining factor. - GA
The rules do allow modification of the floor pan -you could run the exhaust out the side of the car if you wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by seewavedr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amy
02-04 Cooper S 160hp (usually about 145whp bone stock)
05-06 Cooper S 168hp (usually about 155whp bone stock)
05-06 Cooper S JCW 210hp (usually about 180whp bone stock)
JCW package is Different Air box, Larger Injectors, different ECU tune, and Ported Exhaust ports. The STOCK injectors run out of fuel around 190whp. So no mini will ever compete in STU with Stock Injectors. Even the JCW injectors start to run up around 100% in the 210whp range.
The Factory Eaton M45 Supercharger at Eaton's Max Recommended Redline (jcw pulley 11.5% reduction from stock pulley) flows about 215hp worth of air. You can over spin em with other pulley's but all you do is create heat. Running larger intercoolers and moving the intercooler to up front rarely produce more power. On my NASA TTC car I was spinning the supercharger at a 17% reduction. The ONLY way I could keep the car cool was to inject Meth in the intake track. Clearly that's not Doable with STU and SCCA. Even running large amounts of Denatured Alcohol though the intake the car would fall off about a second on my 2nd lap from the heat build up in the supercharger it's self. IIRC My car burned a Gallon of Alcohol a Lap at sebring onto of running race gas in time trial trim. Car turned a 2:27.4 at sebring in the dead of summer.
Generally You can over spin the eaton supercharger quite a bit but it really just makes the car a dyno queen. You can't control the heat from it especially in say a 45 mile race. When NASA took away my alcohol injection I tried using an Air to water with Dry Ice in a huge water tank and a huge radiator up front for the water. I could use the dry ice up and have intake air temps rising to 180f before the end of one hot lap at sebring. So Spinning the blower harder isn't gonna work in STU. The Grand-am cars use the JCW pulley with an air to water AND air to air intercooler and they don't fall off that bad so the JCW pulley is about as far as you can push it. With the JCW pulley at 8000rpm (about as high as you want to spin one of these) the supercharger is spinning at 18,800 rpm. At 18,800 rpm on the supercharger it would flow in a PERFECT world 266hp crank shaft.
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/TurboMaps/M45flow.gif
Greg I'll send you an e-mail with all my findings on my Mini so I'm not making a multipage post and hijacking Scott's thread.
Airboxes and ECUs are free in STU, so the only thing you need to request are injectors (normally "free" but limited by the spec line) and the JCW exhaust ports (you can port in STU but you'd have to add 1% to the weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrsideways
Again, I don't recall if the stock injectors was a conscious decision. Make a request with this data to allow "open" injectors and at a minimum we can dual-line-item the engine if the STAC/CRB thinks it's too much for the existing class weight. - GA
You know Stock head, Stock Injectors, and stock pulley the car really would slot into STL nicely if weighed like it's a 2.0L.
The ports on the head are SOOOO small and crappy that they don't flow anything. You won't break 200whp on one with stock head. Hell guys barely do that with lots of boost and big cams on the stock head.
Seriously!!?? I agree it will be hard to get over 200-210, but its really not about whp on a car with FI. The Cooper with the sc has a healthy torque curve, and with a bit of tuning can be a real beast out of the corners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrsideways
Nope, sorry, I think the PTB got it correct when they limited FI cars out of STL
Don't expect any changes to forced induction in STL. 'Bout the only time I'd personally give it consideration is when we have 1.3L/1.4L turbo cars somewhere down the line, but I don't see those coming to the USA in numbers for several years (thought I'd personally LOVE to buy a Polo GTI 1.4L turbo)... - GA
about those several years... the chevy cruze and sonic both have a 138hp/150lbft 1.4L turbo with a 6 spd manual. should sell some decent volumes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amy
Geo Metro/Sprint turbo?? It's early '90s tech but still in the age range:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amy
There you go! That's the powertrain for what I envision as STL-level cars in this country, very common in Europe. I'm not going to propose allowing these turbo engines into STL quite yet, but that's the direction I see as the future. - GAQuote:
Originally Posted by Chip42
No no no, your talking about turbo cars. Look at a stock mini's dyno sheet. The torque curve looks the same as any serious Honda Motor, FLAT. And 210whp will be near impossible especially if you limit compression. Have you seen the Heads on a Mini? I've got 3 of them on the bench I'll take pictures of. A stock one, a JCW, and a very heavily ported one. It's a 40hp BOLT ON mod to port the head. A cooper S with stock pulley will make 150ft/lbs of tq at the ground from 3k to till when the head stops flowing, JUST like a B18 out of a Honda or a 2ZZ out of a Toyota.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac36
I know Greg's never gonna push for FI in STL but as I told the NASA guys Superchargers need to be looked at completely differently then Turbo's.
Another neat car would be the Supercharged EARLY MR2.
Below are the dyno's on my car with a stock bottom end. ALL pulls were done with a 17% reduction pulley on the supercharger.
First pull was (lowest) was just pulley and exhaust
2nd pull (193whp) was pulley, cam, header, intake, intercooler, tune and Alcohol Injection and bigger injectors.
3rd pull was just a ported head and bigger valves over the 2nd pull.
http://www.mrsideways.com/images/firsttuneday.jpg
http://www.maitlandimports.com/images/Hightune.jpg