ITS / ITA Honda/ Acura

As usual I am entering into an area I know little about...... but that is what you guys are for. I have been giving some thought to buying a SSC or SSB car for a trip through the dreaded national race scene next year. RAmerica is one of my favorites, and going to the ROs once would probably be plenty for this "sandyroots" racer (grassroots is higher up the chain!) With that in mind I have been sniffing around different BBs and come across several different cars. The best deals seem to be on B or C cars that are close to the end of SS eligibility. ( Yeah I want to be able to decently compete in SS, but I am not exactly looking to climb any ladders as I have "high anxiety"!) One of my questions is, "would there be any IT value in these cars after their SS days?" One is a 2000 Civic Si. The other is a 02 RSX s. (There are others, but $wise these look in the ballpark.)
Being that I doubt I would run more then one SS season, my next question is, "converted to IT would they be competitive" (if done right?)
Thanks for any feedback.

I don't see the Civic Si being too competitive in ITS at 2430... just not enough oontz to run with the Integra's (or anything else really). I don't think the regular RSX is classed... the RSX-S in ITR looks like a potential contender. With the VIN Swap Rule going into effect, you could always turn your "base" RSX into an "S" and run ITR at 2665. The big downside of the early RSX's is their fairly craptacular suspension design. Not sure how much luck you'd have working around that within the IT ruleset.

Christian

Mac,
Keep me up to date on what your thinking of next year.My Miata is for sale and if it sells I will run the Type R in a few enduros and rent or steal rides the rest of the time in 2009.
2010 I hope to be set up back in nationals in a T3 car or something close to.I thought about top shelf SSB car but there not really any faster then a good SM,after running the Type R the SM is a cream puff.Also I really don't want to have to explain to everyone that I race a Pontiac Solstice if I went with SSB.

Isn't the RSX classed in SSB the "S" version, or "the RSX-S"? I always thought that's what it was. Got to be. They always seem to have some of the highest trap speeds of any SSB car every year at the Runoffs. They can and have run up front, but it seems like being able to drive it and keep the tires under it is the most difficult thing.

Then for ITR, I think the RSX-S could be a decent car for the class, but again, keep tires on it and deal with the rather crappy (for a Honda) suspension design. But, those cars were run for a pretty long time in Grand Am Cup and World Challenge competition with good success. So if those guys can do it, so can you. Here's a hint: 2500lb rear springs.

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Originally Posted by type r rocket

Mac,
Keep me up to date on what your thinking of next year.My Miata is for sale and if it sells I will run the Type R in a few enduros and rent or steal rides the rest of the time in 2009.
2010 I hope to be set up back in nationals in a T3 car or something close to.I thought about top shelf SSB car but there not really any faster then a good SM,after running the Type R the SM is a cream puff.Also I really don't want to have to explain to everyone that I race a Pontiac Solstice if I went with SSB.

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My intial plans for 09 included opening a franchise of the "Gay Shoe Warehouse" somewhere in Texas...probably Austin..... but with the chance that you and Sidewalk would not be available for the Grand Opening I just canned the whole scheme and moved on to this "national racing" idea. I got pretty spoiled running with the SAFERACER guys last year. Made me even consider going back to SM.
Unless I can find a body shop willing to do free work (and probably lots of it) SM is out. I have enough trouble staying clear of IT cars. I figured spending the year trying to catch ol John in "C" might be fun. Not really interested in spending the $$ it would probably take to do real well. The older C / B cars meet the price range but run out of time in SS pretty quick. Maybe instead of IT they would be better converting to Honda Challenge. I raced a SSC Protege one time and after I got use to throwing it in the turns, it was OK. I probably should do like you are talking about and run the enduros, but then I would miss all the MidDiv paddock hijinx!

I still will do a few Midiv races next year,just a few less.2-3 Midiv races and 2 enduros should be enough to get me by.I want to kick back and see what class looks good to jump back into for 2010.I loved Spec Miata and will miss the close racing but I need something to get the blood going again and I hope its from a different class,so just the change will do the trick.And I'll still have the friends from SM and the "Warehouse"


D

Our 99' si that we built for ITS with Dave behind the wheel when we got it running right was a consisten thrid place car. It could not compete with the BMW or speed source RX7s but it was a fast car. We only had a few races on it and still had ALOT of developmebnt to do but unfortunately we got punted in turn 9 at roebling causing the car to do multiple flips. Now we are building a similiar chassis (99' EX) for ITA.

what about an RX-8 in T3?

Not CHEAP (I mean cosT effective) enough!

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Originally Posted by IPRESS

Not CHEAP (I mean cosT effective) enough!

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agreed.

OPINIONS PLEASE
Would an RSX be a better ITR car then a 00 Civi be an ITS car?
From what I gather the RSX has just a terrible suspension, but in IT some of that could be improved. Does it have enough usable HP/TQ to run with the BMWs?
Thanks guys, for any help. This is a hard call for me, as budget racing requires extra good planning...... which is not my strong point. Would be nice to just write a check for the "right car" and go race, but I don't have that option.

Right now the ITR field seem a bit small in the SE division.. So if you want to be "on the podium". Then go for the ITR car.

The only opinion I can give you is the fact that our civic was competitive.. finishing in the top 3 when it finished.. WE only had a few races before it was totaled. However.. it would take cubic dollars and alot of seat time to beat a fully developed BMW, RX7, or Miata.

competitive regionally, or competitive at the ARRC/IT Fest?

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Originally Posted by IPRESS

OPINIONS PLEASE
Would an RSX be a better ITR car then a 00 Civi be an ITS car?
From what I gather the RSX has just a terrible suspension, but in IT some of that could be improved. Does it have enough usable HP/TQ to run with the BMWs?
Thanks guys, for any help. This is a hard call for me, as budget racing requires extra good planning...... which is not my strong point. Would be nice to just write a check for the "right car" and go race, but I don't have that option.

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The RSX should have a hellavu engine in it with all the IT allowances. Weight will be so-so but it's got good brakes and should be able to fit a fair bit of tire under the fenders. How will it do against the BMW's out there? Probably not great but, as others have said, ITR doesn't have super-stout fields yet. Hell, I've out driven ITR cars in my old ITA CRX :shrug:

Civic Si is going to be waaay down on torque and HP compared to essentially everything else in ITS. It'll have a better suspension than many of the other ITS cars (Miata's excluded) but I don't think that'll be enough to get it done. Think of the Civic Si as a lightweight and lower powered Integra GSR... it can be fast but probably not quite "podium" fast in a strong ITS field.

Were it me choosing between them, I'd go with the RSX and plan to spring the holy hell out of it, build up the engine, and essentially drag race from one corner to the next. :happy204:

edit:
I've heard that the K series engines in the RSX-S with IT allowances may be able to dyno 230-240whp... I dunno how accurate this hearsay is though. I know that I've seen dyno plots of a stock engine with intake making just under 210whp.

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Originally Posted by Xian

The RSX should have a hellavu engine in it with all the IT allowances. Weight will be so-so but it's got good brakes and should be able to fit a fair bit of tire under the fenders. How will it do against the BMW's out there? Probably not great but, as others have said, ITR doesn't have super-stout fields yet. Hell, I've out driven ITR cars in my old ITA CRX :shrug:

Civic Si is going to be waaay down on torque and HP compared to essentially everything else in ITS. It'll have a better suspension than many of the other ITS cars (Miata's excluded) but I don't think that'll be enough to get it done. Think of the Civic Si as a lightweight and lower powered Integra GSR... it can be fast but probably not quite "podium" fast in a strong ITS field.

Were it me choosing between them, I'd go with the RSX and plan to spring the holy hell out of it, build up the engine, and essentially drag race from one corner to the next. :happy204:

edit:
I've heard that the K series engines in the RSX-S with IT allowances may be able to dyno 230-240whp... I dunno how accurate this hearsay is though. I know that I've seen dyno plots of a stock engine with intake making just under 210whp.

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AHHH drag racing, brings to mind mt college days when I had a 442!
Thanks, now to talk to some people who have raced the RSX in "B" trim.

the Civic Si in ITS will certainly be cheaper to run, and would be just fine on competitiveness round these parts.