Racing my datsun 210 in ITC

I am wanting to eventually race in a scca race and am wondering what class to aim for with my 1980 datsun 210 for next year. My plan is to leave the engine mainly stock and gut the car, put in roll cage, fully upgrade the suspension/brakes and run dot tires. I was thinking the class I would run in would be ITC. In ITC there are a lot of datsun 510 guys that race in that class. My car's engine (A14 1400cc pushrod motor) maybe a little bit less in hp than a 510's L16. Though could i compensate by taking more weight off to compete? Is that legal? Also what other cars race in ITC so i have an idea of what i am going up against. I also think this class would be perfect for my situation as i do not have tons of money to invest in a fully built engine yet. This class seems to be a momentum class which is also something i like. Anyways are there other ITC guys in here that race datsuns and know about the 210's and could give me their opinion on the car i have and being in an ITC class? What do you people think?

Welcome!

First step is to get a copy of the SCCA's General Competition Regulations, or GCR. The "ITCS" section lists out the cars in each class (ITR, ITS, ITA, ITB, and ITC). You'll need to see if the 210 is listed (you can find the GCR online at www.scca.com).

If listed, the car will have a spec'ed weight you will need to meet with driver and fuel. It also has very specific rules for what you can do the car, and if something is not listed, you can't do it. That's a very key component of your ruleset.

Don't start taking the car apart until you have read the rules several times through! It will guide you in your build and at the same time give you ideas for things you CAN do to the car.

Good luck, and e-mail me at [email protected] if you have any questions.

Thanks.

Jeff

210(s) are legal for ITC

Weight is 2080. Seems that that may be a bit on the heavy side.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by raceweasel

I am wanting to eventually race in a scca race and am wondering what class to aim for with my 1980 datsun 210 for next year. My plan is to leave the engine mainly stock and gut the car, put in roll cage, fully upgrade the suspension/brakes and run dot tires. I was thinking the class I would run in would be ITC. In ITC there are a lot of datsun 510 guys that race in that class. My car's engine (A14 1400cc pushrod motor) maybe a little bit less in hp than a 510's L16. Though could i compensate by taking more weight off to compete? Is that legal? Also what other cars race in ITC so i have an idea of what i am going up against. I also think this class would be perfect for my situation as i do not have tons of money to invest in a fully built engine yet. This class seems to be a momentum class which is also something i like. Anyways are there other ITC guys in here that race datsuns and know about the 210's and could give me their opinion on the car i have and being in an ITC class? What do you people think?

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Welcome to the insanity! FYI, most posters include their names and location in their profile and signature (minor point).

B210, that is a nice looking car. Best of luck! ITC is a real active class in the Great Lakes Division.

With that said, in the next few days, you will be bombarded with advice to buy your first race car already prepared, instead of building. If at all possible, heed their advice. I built instead of buy and it took much longer than planned and after four years, I am still making improvements.

The best $15 you'll spend will be to buy Dave Gran's book 'Go Ahead and Take The Wheel'. Then arrange to go to some races as crew. I never appreciated this advice until I visited Road Atlanta and Road America for the first time this year. Now, when I go there to race, I will know my way around and can concentrate on racing, and not figuring things out. Do track tours in your street car if you have the oportunity - gives you a chance to see the track out of a windshield without the pressure of being in a race car.

Set realistic goals, and build up gradually. And have a good attitude. Racing is great fun, but there will be setbacks, and trials. Attitude will get you through them, and you will have a great time.

Good luck.

What Bill said, with the exception that I'd recommend staying far, FAR away from "build up gradually."

If you are in a position where you can only afford to put a small amount of $$ into the car at a time, open a savings account and put the money there instead. THEN, when you've got the $$ together, buy an already-built car. I guarantee you will be on the track sooner, and if something happens that derails your plan, you'll still have the dough rather than a garage full of parts worth pennies to the dollars that you spent buying them.

I've got about $400 worth of parts on my race car that I bought from people liquidating parts - meaning that I spent a lot less than half that value to take the bits off those guys' hands.

K

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Originally Posted by Knestis

What Bill said, with the exception that I'd recommend staying far, FAR away from "build up gradually."

If you are in a position where you can only afford to put a small amount of $$ into the car at a time, open a savings account and put the money there instead. THEN, when you've got the $$ together, buy an already-built car. I guarantee you will be on the track YEARS sooner, for THOUSANDS less, and if something happens that derails your plan, you'll still have the dough rather than a garage full of parts worth pennies to the dollars that you spent buying them.

K

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Kirk speaks the truth.

A couple more points: The car in your driveway that is "Free" SEEMS like it would be the biggest nut financially, but that is far far from the reality. And, the car that is listed in ITC might or might not be a competitive car. Even though you'll say, "That's OK, I just want to get on the track and have fun at first", that car will be worth half of what a competitive car will be when you inevitably wish you were in a car that could win. Yet, you've poured twice the cost of a competitive car into it. .25 cents on the dollar...if you're lucky.

OK, had to say that! Build away if you like, and have fun!

Kirk, Jake and Jeff are all very knowledgeable. Heed their advice! I probably should have been more specific when I said 'build up gradually'. I was not referring to the car, but to your goals racing. As a wise sage once said 'In order to finish first, first you have to finish!' He also said 'It's easy to make a small fortune racing, all you need to do is start with a large one!'

Have fun!

You could do like I did and buy a used race car, total it after 7 hours on the track, then build another one with the remains. You get to experience both ways. :o

It’s not that hard to start racing but it's much harder to develop sustainable racing. There are many pitfalls along the way and one of the biggest is building your own car to start. I got some good advice when I started (like what Jake and Kirk said above) and for once I listened. The biggest thing people don’t understand is that it’s not about the car. The car is completely irrelevant. It is a box with wheels. Racing is about driving and what you want to do is find a way to affordably and reliably drive a box with wheels on the track. It’s tough because people get into racing because they are “car guys”so naturally they are focused on the car.
When I started I wanted a spec miata. I bought an ITB Pinto “just to do my driver’s school in”, and ended up racing the Pinto for 4-5 years now. If you would have told me when I started that I’d be racing a Pinto… uh, no. Just as an example, my brother’s Pinto is for sale in the classifieds. Ignore the fact that it’s a Pinto (I know) and take a look at what you get for 2800 bucks. And there are many other good deals out there.

since i started racing, i've bought 2 cars. the first i drove from Greensboro to Memphis to buy a Fiat X1/9. that car got me through school, but 4 heads and 3 blocks later (i did learn a lot about wrenching on the car) it finished it's first race in its 2nd attempt... with a blown head gasket!

traded that for a Honda CRX ITC car, and have yet to have a DNF (despite a ventilated block and a lack of brake fluid!).

what I'm saying, is buy buy buy! buy a car, learn to race, and then if you really aren't happy build. event then, i would still say just upgrade what you buy.. there are alway's things to change out.

and as for the b210... there was one here in the carolina's. it was very slow.

best of luck!
hoop

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Originally Posted by iambhooper

since i started racing, i've bought 2 cars. the first i drove from Greensboro to Memphis to buy a Fiat X1/9. that car got me through school, but 4 heads and 3 blocks later

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Holy sheet!!!

That sounds worse than my Jensen experience. I didn't know about that stuff, man, those are hard times. I'll spot you some beer at the next outing.

R

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

Holy sheet!!!

That sounds worse than my Jensen experience. I didn't know about that stuff, man, those are hard times. I'll spot you some beer at the next outing.

R

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Thanks!

you don't remember the 3 Cylinder X1/9 running the ECR on the North Course? that was a baptism.... litteraly. Ed came in w 20 min to go in the race, parked the car and waited till it got near the end. we pushed it up to the line and when the threw the checkered, he hit the starter button... blowing coolant all over us, but crossing and finshing my first race! ::026:

and as for the Jenson... dude, nothing is worse that a car trying to perform a Castration! did you dump that on some poor vintage racer yet?

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Originally Posted by AjG

The car is completely irrelevant. It is a box with wheels. Racing is about driving and what you want to do is find a way to affordably and reliably drive a box with wheels on the track.

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This is such a great point, and very well put. :happy204:

Steve

He GAVE it away to some guy who put a 13B in it. No kidding.

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Originally Posted by iambhooper

Thanks!

you don't remember the 3 Cylinder X1/9 running the ECR on the North Course? that was a baptism.... litteraly. Ed came in w 20 min to go in the race, parked the car and waited till it got near the end. we pushed it up to the line and when the threw the checkered, he hit the starter button... blowing coolant all over us, but crossing and finshing my first race! ::026:

and as for the Jenson... dude, nothing is worse that a car trying to perform a Castration! did you dump that on some poor vintage racer yet?

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Originally Posted by JeffYoung

He GAVE it away to some guy who put a 13B in it. No kidding.

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So they can circumsise themselves with a Wankle?!

eh, we all make mistakes.

AH, the jensen drivetrain spinning even faster!

Just one last word on the buy don't build thing. I've been racing my RX-7 for years. I need to move on. But, I've got some predetermined notions about the class, and the type of car, and jeeez, there just aren't that many 'buy' options. And I know how much of an uphill climb building is...

..so I keep looking.

Like everyone else is saying, buy a built car. My last car started out as a $1000 ITB car and I converted it over to G prod. Over the course of three years I probably ended up with well over 8 grand in the thing, probably more and got less than 5 for it when I sold it. If I really tried it could have been very good nationally.

I am saving right now for another car and there are a ton of good bargains in the 3 to 4 grand range that you could never come close to duplicating. Patience is definately a virtue.

Buy a used race car. You will spend at most 25 cents on the dollar vs building a car. And don't worry, there will be plenty of things to do on your "new" used racecar. I also suggest buying a car as it comes off the track if you can. Look for a car with lots of "good" spares. You will need spare rims, engine and transmission. IT requires stock brakes. Your datsun 210 has not been made for many years. Spare parts could become an issue. Nissan has also stopped supporting hobby racers. Welcome to our addiction. The advice to go and help out at the track is also good advice. If I had taken the time to look more into racing, I would be racing a formula vee now. I did not know a sole when I got into racing, and the internet had not been invented. I bought a VW scirocco out of someone's driveway and spent $5000 to get it to my first school. Don't forget, you need a fire system, belts, racing seat, and helmet.