Timing change OK

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10-12-2009, 06:51 PM
wepsbee

Timing change OK

Running at the Glen this weekend had a so so prac/qual. Tied last years fastest time 0f 2:34. Not very good for experienced drivers and only mildly dissappointing for new drivers.
Discussed issue with crew and an idea to change timing came up. I have a 1.8L Mazda engine in a Ford Escort. Changed to 18 deg from 16. Stock is 10. During the race I found some new power and was now shifting into 5th in the back straight. Never did that before. I dropped my fastest time to a 2:28!! Moved up 4 or 5 places. I did try to be more aggressive on the turns but I think the car probably deserves more credit than the driver. Will this change have any negative effects on the engine?
10-12-2009, 07:20 PM
Andy Bettencourt

Quote:

Originally Posted by wepsbee

Running at the Glen this weekend had a so so prac/qual. Tied last years fastest time 0f 2:34. Not very good for experienced drivers and only mildly dissappointing for new drivers.
Discussed issue with crew and an idea to change timing came up. I have a 1.8L Mazda engine in a Ford Escort. Changed to 18 deg from 16. Stock is 10. During the race I found some new power and was now shifting into 5th in the back straight. Never did that before. I dropped my fastest time to a 2:28!! Moved up 4 or 5 places. I did try to be more aggressive on the turns but I think the car probably deserves more credit than the driver. Will this change have any negative effects on the engine?

If you want to tune it Dan, bring it to us. Dyno time is great. I have found that even less advance is the sweet spot for power in my car.

No adverse affects, actually, you have brought it into a 'safer' zone.
10-12-2009, 08:15 PM
wepsbee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt

If you want to tune it Dan, bring it to us. Dyno time is great. I have found that even less advance is the sweet spot for power in my car.

No adverse affects, actually, you have brought it into a 'safer' zone.

OK, Tuning on a dyno is on the list for next year.
10-13-2009, 12:24 PM
joeg

Dan--With a 2 point change, it is difficult to determine if that is the cause for your new found speed.

Was it a back-to-back comparison
10-13-2009, 01:02 PM
markw

When working with engine timing you need to look at "total" advance. A timing light that allows you to dial the advance to bring TDC to zero is best. Most engines see "total" advance above 3000rpm. Too much timing and while the engine may seem more responsive puts you closer to detonation. A higher octane fuel will allow you to run more advance. As suggested a dyno is the only way to really measure the affect of timing on hp and torque. I read somewhere that you can do pretty well setting timing at the drag strip. The idea was, you'd do a run, and then advance the timing a little. Do another run and check your time. Keep advancing the timing until you 1/4 mile time drops off. Then retard the timing back to the previous setting. I have never tried this, but it sounded reasonable when I heard it.
10-13-2009, 02:11 PM
gran racing

Dan,
When Matt advanced the timing of my car it also meant me running higher octane gas. I see either your car or your sisters at his shop from time to time. Have you ever had him tune them?
10-13-2009, 03:40 PM
wepsbee

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeg

Dan--With a 2 point change, it is difficult to determine if that is the cause for your new found speed.

Was it a back-to-back comparison

Qual in the morning with the race in the afternoon

Quote:

Originally Posted by gran racing

Dan,
When Matt advanced the timing of my car it also meant me running higher octane gas. I see either your car or your sisters at his shop from time to time. Have you ever had him tune them?

Matt did have it for a little while and there was issues trying to tune it properly. The car does not have a tunable ECU yet so there was not much he could do. I do intend on emailing him with what happened to get his opinion.
10-14-2009, 05:46 AM
dominojd

Dan,

I would not account all the time made up due to the timing change. The track sucked in the AM speedy dry all over and it just sucked. Me, Marc, and Forrest all picked up about 2 secs in the PM race, usually we will pick up or loose tenths not secs. It may have made a small difference but not much.

Why don't you just give yourself credit for driving better in the race because the HP you would gain if any would not be enough to pick up 5 secs. :)

Like everyone else said the only true way to find out is on a dyno.
10-14-2009, 07:12 AM
wepsbee

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominojd

Dan,

I would not account all the time made up due to the timing change. The track sucked in the AM speedy dry all over and it just sucked. Me, Marc, and Forrest all picked up about 2 secs in the PM race, usually we will pick up or loose tenths not secs. It may have made a small difference but not much.

Why don't you just give yourself credit for driving better in the race because the HP you would gain if any would not be enough to pick up 5 secs. :)

Like everyone else said the only true way to find out is on a dyno.

Thanks Joe, appreciate the vote of confidence. I went out with a more aggresive attitude since my crew were making some remarks about my skirt getting in the way of my driving so maybe some of it was me. The car just ran great and the Hoosiers stuck like glue. 1st time with hoosiers at that track. Confidence in the car really helps run a good race.
After the new ECU is purchased the car will be dyno'd for sure. Have a good off season!!
10-14-2009, 03:18 PM
raffaelli

Quote:

Originally Posted by wepsbee

. I went out with a more aggresive attitude since my crew were making some remarks about my skirt getting in the way of my driving so maybe some of it was me.

Funny. At a test and tune day the little voice in my ear piece said "I think your high heels are in the way of the throttle pedal":(
10-14-2009, 03:33 PM
Andy Bettencourt

Don't think I haven't heard "Don't break a nail while you are pussy-footing through the Downhill Bettencourt"...

It's a hard life this racin'. :D
10-14-2009, 03:38 PM
wepsbee

Quote:

Originally Posted by raffaelli

Funny. At a test and tune day the little voice in my ear piece said "I think your high heels are in the way of the throttle pedal":(

Yup, thats knda what was implied:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt

Don't think I haven't heard "Don't break a nail while you are pussy-footing through the Downhill Bettencourt"...

It's a hard life this racin'. :D

Sure looks alot easier on TV.
AB, pussyfooting at LRP....1:00.8 HMMMMMMMMM
10-14-2009, 04:27 PM
Andy Bettencourt

Quote:

Originally Posted by wepsbee

AB, pussyfooting at LRP....1:00.8 HMMMMMMMMM

Didn't say they said it to me THAT event! Everyone was a beginner at some point and FOM specializes in tough love...:smilie_pokal:
10-14-2009, 05:23 PM
tom_sprecher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt

I have found that even less advance is the sweet spot for power in my car.

We usually keep taking out advance until the numbers start to drop, then dial a little more back in.
10-14-2009, 06:56 PM
lateapex911

Quote:

Originally Posted by wepsbee

Sure looks alot easier on TV.

Actually, sometimes it doesn't! Check out this vid from the end of the Laguna ALMS GT2 race. Not sure if it shows the pass by the Vette that precluded it all....but, it's a keeper if you have it on the DVR>

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CBeuoJmZ7g[/ame]
10-15-2009, 07:20 AM
wepsbee

Quote:

Originally Posted by lateapex911

Actually, sometimes it doesn't! Check out this vid from the end of the Laguna ALMS GT2 race. Not sure if it shows the pass by the Vette that precluded it all....but, it's a keeper if you have it on the DVR>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CBeuoJmZ7g

That looked like cheap racing, purposely runing the other car into the wall, HMMMMMM
You are right that was work!!
10-15-2009, 12:47 PM
lateapex911

You missed the laps leading up to it. The Vette pulled off an amzing pass down PIT lane, then back onto the track proper that the stewards made him give back. And there was plenty of rubbing preceding what you saw. And the punt by the Vette on the 911 entering the straight.

After watching that race, I thought, "Jeez, that's outa control!" But who to assgn blame to? I couldn't decide. Evidently IMSA agrees, and has put both drivers on probation.
10-15-2009, 12:58 PM
wepsbee

Quote:

Originally Posted by lateapex911

You missed the laps leading up to it. The Vette pulled off an amzing pass down PIT lane, then back onto the track proper that the stewards made him give back. And there was plenty of rubbing preceding what you saw. And the punt by the Vette on the 911 entering the straight.

After watching that race, I thought, "Jeez, that's outa control!" But who to assgn blame to? I couldn't decide. Evidently IMSA agrees, and has put both drivers on probation.

I suppose but would you classify a tap in the rear with a run you into the wal move as equivalent? Glad I dont have to make calls on stuff like that.