What makes a race restricted? Like 10/16/05 @ Watkins Glen
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What makes a race restricted? Like 10/16/05 @ Watkins Glen
Probably has to do with limiting the number of classes because they are running a school and an enduro for that weekend besides the regular race.
every regional that deviates from the gcr classes has to be a restricted regional. that means additions as well as limitations. all norteast regional have extra classes like ssm
Are you certain of this? You probably know better than I, but I've observed that restricted regionals in our regioni seem to be regional classes running on a national weekend.Quote:
Originally posted by dickita15@Oct 5 2005, 10:04 PM
every regional that deviates from the gcr classes has to be a restricted regional. that means additions as well as limitations. all norteast regional have extra classes like ssm
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well george I am pretty sure. your example is a perfect description of a resrticted regional. the classes run are different than the gcr classes. I assume you are telling me that the stand alone regionals you have in the SW are not santioned as restricted regionals even thought they run classes other than those in the gcr. If true i suppose it is not inconcievable that club rcing has told different regions different things over the years.Quote:
Originally posted by Geo@Oct 5 2005, 09:55 PM
Are you certain of this? You probably know better than I, but I've observed that restricted regionals in our regioni seem to be regional classes running on a national weekend.
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to every one else. when entering a race it usually matter little to you as a competitor whether the event is listed as a restricted regional or not. of course you all read the supps. :)
George,Quote:
Originally posted by Geo@Oct 6 2005, 01:55 AM
Are you certain of this? You probably know better than I, but I've observed that restricted regionals in our regioni seem to be regional classes running on a national weekend.
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If you look at the run groups for the RR on a N/R/RR weekend you will see something like this:
Sat regional all run groups all cars 30 min races.
Sun National class groups 45 minute race regional run groups 30 min race.
There are no regional races on sunday for national class cars. Which means if you have a GT/Prod/Touring/SS/Sport racer(other than ASR)/Formula car and only have a regional liscense you don't race on sunday.
Dick, just for clarification (and not to argue in any way - I'd like to be sure of this as well), yes our regional only races are not listed as restricted regional (that I have seen). Also, a point of order, but technically there are no classes listed in the GCR other than for cage specs that I remember. All of the classes are techincally listed in the Category Specifications which are technically separate. To make it more confusing, the "GCR" we buy today is really a combination of GCR and Category Specifications.Quote:
Originally posted by dickita15@Oct 6 2005, 11:27 AM
well george I am pretty sure. your example is a perfect description of a resrticted regional. the classes run are different than the gcr classes. I assume you are telling me that the stand alone regionals you have in the SW are not santioned as restricted regionals even thought they run classes other than those in the gcr. If true i suppose it is not inconcievable that club rcing has told different regions different things over the years.
to every one else. when entering a race it usually matter little to you as a competitor whether the event is listed as a restricted regional or not. of course you all read the supps. :)
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Again, I want to emphasis that I'm not trying to argue, just exploring things a bit.
Uh section 17.1 classifications.Quote:
Originally posted by Geo@Oct 6 2005, 09:25 PM
but technically there are no classes listed in the GCR other than for cage specs that I remember. All of the classes are techincally listed in the Category Specifications which are technically separate.
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so the possibilitied as I see them are as follows.
1. you are mistaken and the sw standalone regionals are listed as restricted
2. these events are listed as regionals on the entry but on the sanctions application they really were restricted.
3. the national staff no longer cares a we just do it the way they said years ago.
4. I am mistaken.
I guess you can ask the person who actually fills out the sanction application down there.
probably you and i are the only ones that care.
george i don't think you are being agumenative and it is good to have you back
Hey, thanks Dick.Quote:
Originally posted by dickita15+Oct 7 2005, 11:31 AM-->Uh, I don't usually hang around there - especially at night. :PQuote:
Uh section 17.1 classifications.[/b]
Well smack me with my GCR! Thanks Dick. I really never remembered seeing it.
Well, I've always wondered. I'll have to ask someone. This has really piqued my curiosity.Quote:
Originally posted by dickita15@Oct 7 2005, 11:31 AM
so the possibilitied as I see them are as follows.
1. you are mistaken and the sw standalone regionals are listed as restricted
2. these events are listed as regionals on the entry but on the sanctions application they really were restricted.
3. the national staff no longer cares a we just do it the way they said years ago.
4. I am mistaken.
I guess you can ask the person who actually fills out the sanction application down there.
probably you and i are the only ones that care.
<!--QuoteBegin-dickita15@Oct 7 2005, 11:31 AM
george i don't think you are being agumenative and it is good to have you back
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I'm actually starting to make REAL progress on my car. Still more destruction than actual construction, but getting VERY close to turning that corner. Nearly everything is out. All I need is a nice weekend in town that I'm not working and I should be ready to pressure wash the shell. After that all I have to do is drop the suspensioni components and start the paint prep. I'm really looking forward to getting this thing back together. It's nice to finally have a decent shop to work in.
I can't tell if the original question (what makes a race a Restricted Regional) was ever answered so here is my shot.
A regional race includes all the classes listed in the GCR and Category Specifications. Some of these classes are "Regional Only", such as IT. Most region races also included any "local classes" (i.e. ITE or CFF) via the supplemental rules.
A Restricted Regional is a race sanction that does not include all the GCR/Category Specification classes. This might be a "sedan only" weekend. Or IT and FM only.
This jibes with what I've seen - i.e. IT running on a national weekend.Quote:
Originally posted by pgipson@Oct 8 2005, 02:43 AM
A Restricted Regional is a race sanction that does not include all the GCR/Category Specification classes. This might be a "sedan only" weekend. Or IT and FM only.
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This is from a Race Chairperson/Registrar:
Restricted Regionals are "restricted" only in the sense of their deviation from the "Regional only" classes, and licenses as defined in the GCR. A region may run a Restricted Regional in situations where a regional race (restricted) is added to the National race card, where there is not enough time to run the full schedule of "regional only" classes. The intent here is to be a part of the event using the time available. Western New York did this by adding SS, AS, and IT Enduro cars to the National that we ran at Mosport, Canada. That whole event was run with the Canadian Car Club classes during a two day weekend. Our intent here was to allow opportunities for (unfornately only a few) regional drivers to run a great track like Mosport. We don't get the opportunity to get our American cars classed in the Canadian classes easily so as to run that track. Secondly, a region may use it to "flesh out" the entry...earn more money. Thirdly, to attract existing cars to race. WNY brings in a few Canadian entries that could never otherwise run under SCCA rules.
Another instance where the Restricted Regional Sanction was used was to include drivers with other than SCCA regional/national licenses. The only specification of the SCCA other than safety regulations (car classes), was membership in the SCCA, and the license accepted by the region putting on the race. We had this consideration for the Canadian licensed drivers, and Detroit Region has a similar consideration for Waterford Hills licensed drivers. I'm sure other regions have similar parallel clubs that they include in their activities.
The Regions that use the Restricted Sanction have to pay an extra fee, which is not based on the classes or licenses, for the ability to craft their entry as they consider appropriate for their application.
Incidentally, WNY will use this format again, at the up and coming Pumpkin Regional at Nelson Ledges, Ohio. Dates are October 29th and 30th. The usual "come one and all" spirit prevails, as does the traditional Costume party Saturday night.
Questions for entry information sent to me:[email protected], or entries NESCCA web site at the "on line registration". See you there. :smilie_pokal:
When exploring this option with SCCA national office for Western New York Region over twenty years ago, I facetiously used the possibility of a race for school buses, with bus driver licenses, in their own class!!!
The answer I received was "OK", as long as safety requirements were met. :119:
Hope this fills in a few blanks.
Bill Frieder
Western New York Region SCCA
Was Registrar, now only sleeps with one (Wife, Karen).
From my experiences at TMS it seems that our races being on fri. and sat. that the saturday race and practice was "restricted either in length or in amount of time or both on track" in order to feed the national groups (they are higher on the pecking order) some day we will be equal... :P p.s. I must back track ...the fri. race was awesome it was a 45 minute sprint...it might have been even longer than the national race on sunday !!! :119:
Quote:
Originally posted by bill f@Oct 8 2005, 11:05 AM
The intent here is to be a part of the event using the time available. Western New York did this by adding SS, AS, and IT Enduro cars to the National that we ran at Mosport, Canada. That whole event was run with the Canadian Car Club classes during a two day weekend. Our intent here was to allow opportunities for (unfornately only a few) regional drivers to run a great track like Mosport.
I know I've pestered Roy B. and Phil H. about this for years, but I'll just keep it up - Is there any way we can again get a race date (alone or shared) at Mosport ? With the RunOffs moving back into October in 2006 (and probably for the following years), the schedule pressure of Nationals is relieved just a bit. I know the economics of the previous SCCA/CASC weekends at Mosport weren't always great...but man-o-man...Mosport is my favorite track on earth (and I've raced everywhere from Florida to Canada).
I know we can run with CASC at their sprints and enduros, but we're always just stew meat for the CASC classes (nice people, great cars...but much faster cars).
Still lobbying...anyone want to bring it up at the NEDiv fall Mini-Con ? Mosport in 2006 or 2007 or 2008 ? Time to start a conversation with our northern cousins ?
Dick, I sure hope you had a smile on your face when you mentioned SSM. dave
For Ch#$% sake Dave. Will you guys get over this stuff. Miatas are just another racing class. They are not evil. They are not the salvation of SCCA. When there is an issue with a driver who happens to be driving a Miata it is not because he is driving a Miata. Administrative decisions about race groups are not made based on if the car is a Miatas. Miata drivers are not a protected class. Hate crime rules do not apply.
Thank you for clearing the air, see you in the spring, dave