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Im doing research on this system and wanted to know if anyone here was running IT legal Megasquirt FI setup on an M10, and what injectors, manifold,and ext. they are using. And also how do you like the system?
Im trying to peice an IT car out of an 83 320i.
Anyone who can help, im taking all opinions!
I'm just wondering how a MegaSquirt can be made IT legal.. Are there enough of the right signals in the stock harness going to the stock FI controller (Bosch K-Jet?) to run a Megasquirt? Will the MegaSquirt board fit into the stock controller case? Also, aren't we constrained to stock (albeit blueprinted) injectors?
-noam
Stay tuned. Currently the ECU rule only allows stock harnesses, sensors and what can fit into the stock box with no mods. The rule is currently being discussed and will be put out for member input. It could be that Megasquirt, et al., would be legal, and a sensor package could be subbed or added if needed.
My old laptop isn't agreeing with adobe reader, so i can't read the rule book... Im just looking for the best IT legal Induction and fuel delivery system for the M10 in a 320i. Stock mechanical injection, 36 or 38 webber? Any recomendations will be appreciated.
It sounds like a CIS type system is stock. If that's the case, the current rules would not allow converting to an electronic fuel injection. The rumored changes to the ECU rule could take many forms - simply allow non-stock housings, but all stock wiring/sensors; allow non-stock housings and specific additional sensors using stock wiring; allow full r and r of factory system with aftermarket computer, wiring and sensors (unlikely this one). I don't know that they would include any accomodations to add a fuel rail and electronic injectors to a car never delivered with them.
I would stick with what you have, optomize it, and see what happens with the probable new rules.
..what Chris said - stick with what you've got stock. At the moment, it's all you're allowed to do.. Even a carb conversion is not legal.
Looks like i'll be running the stock Fi. :( How do ya'll feel about a 320i ITB car? (i'm not looking for wins, I want top 5's or top 10's) Iv'e heard the 320i is a pretty driver friendly car, and i'll be new to club racing when i finnish the build. I think i can have it finnished with about $2,850 in the whole project.
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Looks like i'll be running the stock Fi. :( How do ya'll feel about a 320i ITB car? (i'm not looking for wins, I want top 5's or top 10's) Iv'e heard the 320i is a pretty driver friendly car, and i'll be new to club racing when i finnish the build. I think i can have it finnished with about $2,850 in the whole project.
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Where are you located? The only reason I ask is that in the Northeast anyone is lucky to get into the top 5 at some events in ITB... The fields might only be 10-15 or so cars but we have a lot of stong contenders in our neck of the woods.
I am not sure how well the 320i is, but it certainly is a fun class to run with :)
Raymond
e21's are pretty tailhappy but otherwise good cars... what is ur specified min. weight?
you might not want to get a heavy car with an M10 in there.
keep us updated on ur project
Mike
I appreciate the response, and i think the guy who told me the 320 is a top five contender is from the North East... but i'll be south east. Im located in Birmingham AL. Unfortunatly i can't read the rule book on this laptop so im not sure what the weight would be but i think its about 2300lb? suppoesedly it has a 100lb wheight disadvantage on a 2002, mostly in the front...but i cant afford the 2002, or fixing a rusty body. my 320i is spotless and is striped and ready to be rebuilt. I also have 2 xtra m10's.) If i can build this car for under $3000 im going to send pics of it with a writeup to Grassroots motorsports. Any help would be greatly appreciated, good advice or parts you may have... let me know
STOP! Don't make any decisions without a rule book. Read all of it. Then read it again. Then again. Then start asking questions about the 50% of it you didn't understand.
A 1983 BMW 320i is classed in ITB at 2460 with driver.
I'm not a BMW guy - don't have any idea what an M10 is. Is it a 320i, or share key parts with a 320i? You can't use parts from a car that's not on your spec line unless those identical parts were stock on cars on the spec line. Even the 77-79 320i is on a different spec line than the 80-83. Those M10's might be useless for 320i parts.
Not sure what the 2002 comment means. The most recent BMW classed in ITB is a 1986 318i.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
"M10" is the engine designation for the BMW 4-cyl in the 320i. IIRC, the reason for the different spec lines is that there was an engine displacement change mid-way through the 320i life-cycle. The early 320i had a real 2-liter, the later cars were actually 1.8-liter - all carried the M10 engine code I believe (but I could be wrong about that). You need to make sure you've got the right spares - you can only update/backdate within the spec line, meaning you can't put an early 2-liter into a chassis that was supposed to have a 1.8 (must be same body and engine for update/backdate).
"2002" refers to the venerable BMW 2002 (1968 - 1973 and 1974 - 1976 - slight body changes, so different spec lines IIRC).. Similar in engine to the ealry 320i (except carbureted in ITB trim), and still competitive in some parts of the country, but body panels in general are getting hard to find, and rust-free panels even rarer - it is a nice, simple car to race though (my first IT car was a '71 2002)..
Bob Smart (Smarty's Auto and Northeast Racing Enterprises) is a 320i guy. He's got both ITB and Prod car experience with the chassis (Bob's also the "Hoosier guy" for NER events). The last e-mail address I have for him is [email protected].
Good luck.
-noam
p.s. order a hard-copy of the GCR and get out a highlighter to note the things you have questions about. Remember, if the book doesn't specifically say you CAN do something, you CAN'T..
I printed the 46 pg IT rulebook at school today, (couldn't bring my self to print the entire GCR document...)
I noticed the 2002 has a 180lb weight advantage on the 320i but they still get to run our LSD from the 320is? Diffs are open if it fits in the stock housing... so they can run the LSD from a 320i.
Correct.Quote:
Diffs are open if it fits in the stock housing... so they can run the LSD from a 320i.
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And my point was that they can run the only advantage we might have on the 2002, and they still have the weight advantage. doesn't the book say that performance (and competativeness) will be analyzed, and the weights might be changed for the bettering of competiotion? Who do I need to talk too!!! :D
The 320i is not as much of an aero brick as the '02, and should get slightly more power. Assuming equal (and legal) prep, the '02 should have an advantage at the really short tracks (Barber, and Kershaw), but the 320i should have a leg up at most others. That said, the 320i was a decent car a few years ago, but is a pretty weak choice for ITB nowdays. Top 50% isn't unreasonable for any well prepped car (read time and $$$), so 4th or 5th in an 8 or 10 car field is achievable, but a 320i won't run anywhere near the front of a competitive field. A maxed out, well driven 320i almost certainly won't be in the top 5 at the ARRC with the current class structure.Quote:
And my point was that they can run the only advantage we might have on the 2002, and they still have the weight advantage. doesn't the book say that performance (and competativeness) will be analyzed, and the weights might be changed for the bettering of competiotion? Who do I need to talk too!!! :D
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An E30 318i will be more competitive for about the same investment, but the best way to go would be either Honda or VW.
If you really want to go forward with the 320i, give me a call, or send an email; I ran a '77 320i in ITB in the SE from 94-98. graftonkr17 _at_ yahoo or 5O5 2I7 9286.
Grafton
http://www.mylaps.com/profiles/image...5041482987.gif
BMW 1977 to 1983 320i E21 simple breakdown
1977 - 2.0 Ltr, Vented front disk brakes and larger front bearings, Used K-Jetronic (CIS)
1978 to 1979 - 2.0 Ltr, Sold front discs and smaller front bearings (can but updated to '77 specs since they are on the same spec line)
1980 to 1983 - 1.8 Ltr, Same brake setup as the 1978 to 1979 cars but can not be updated to the '77 spec since they are on their own line. Used Bosch KE-Jetronic (CIS-E)
The K-Jetronic is fully mechanical injection system. Getting your fuel and control pressures correct is the main key to this system.
The KE-Jetronic has a narrow band O2 sensor and a simple ECU that controls a frequency valve that adjusts the control pressure in the fuel distributor to keep the AFR at 14.7:1. By replacing the 02 sensor with LC-1 from Innovate Motorsports, you are able to tune the engine for more power by adjusting what the ECU thinks is the current AFR ratio.
I do agree that if you wanted to run a BMW in ITB the 1984 to 1986 E30 318i is the better choice. The E30 has the same basic motor as the later e21 but the injection is fully electronic. The compression ratio is higher then the E21s. The e30 chassis is better then the E21 and has a lower weight.
I have raced a 77 320i for a number of years in ITB and BMWCCA club racing.
Would replacing the O2 sensor be IT-legal?Quote:
The KE-Jetronic has a narrow band O2 sensor and a simple ECU that controls a frequency valve that adjusts the control pressure in the fuel distributor to keep the AFR at 14.7:1. By replacing the 02 sensor with LC-1 from Innovate Motorsports, you are able to tune the engine for more power by adjusting what the ECU thinks is the current AFR ratio. [/b]
It most likely not be because the LC-1 could be viewed as a "piggybacked computers outside of the OEM ECU housing" and the LC-1 is not "the exact equivalent of the original parts."Quote:
Would replacing the O2 sensor be IT-legal?
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I am not sure that it is.
You can however use a resistor in line with the coolant temperature sensor to acheive the correct AFR. You can only add fuel this way, but that is the typical need when tuning a street system for racing.