IT 2009 Build Project

Thanks in advance for your advice. If you were building a new project for IT today what would be your choice and why?

ITS 2nd Gen RX-7
ITA Miata
ITS E30
ITS (ITR?) E36
ITB? Honda CRX
Acura Integra

I am planning a switch to racing with SCCA in New England after my relo from CA where I race with NASA. My current car is not legal in IT and not competitive to build up for EP. Used to run a first gen RX-7, so leaning Mazda because of the Comp program. Will try to buy a built car, but if I don't find the right thing I'll build one.

Appreciate advices.

ITA Miata:

- It's very competative
- Easy to find a car (Spec Miata)
- Lots of parts/after market support
- Large knowledge base
- Reliable/Low maintenance
- Retain value
- You can run it in Spec Miata trim and still do well (run it as is until you get a feel for it then start putting money into it)
- Easy to drive

If you decide to go the ITS RX-7 route, I'm selling mine after the season. It's in Massachusetts, it has been prepped by Flatout Motorsports ever since I bought it, and it's fast (still holds track record at NHMS - 1:14.2 - and ran easy 1:00.7s at Lime Rock last year). At Flatout, we like to think we know a little something about RX-7s. :D

Shoot me an email if you want to know more: [email protected]

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Steve Ulfelder
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS

Miata (from your list).

Why? Great support on parts and not super expensive. Overall, just a good car.

The others have age/ scarcity/ expense issues.

Probably the Miata for the same reasons, BUT an important consideration should be which classes are most active where you plan to race. IIRC, ITA / ITS are the busier classes in NER, ITB not so much. For comparison, SM/SSM is bigger in the WDC region than it is in NER. I'd put off any purchase until you get there and see where you want to run.

ITS - BMW 325
ITA - Honda CRX
ITB - Volkswagen GTI
ITC - Honda CRX

Sorry I had to break the Miata ITA vote....
This is just my observation up here in NEOHIO region and surrounding regions/areas....

i'd be hesitant of anything miata right now. there's an angry mob wandering around determined to get more weight on the car.

otherwise, i'm with Rob (wreckerboy), research what class is popular in the area you're moving to, what types of tracks you'll be running at, and decide accordingly.

.

Ed Tisdale has a very nice ITR E36 for sale, or Steve Ulfelder's ITS RX7 for next year.

We look forward to having you join us!

.

I like the E36 325/328 in ITR

I like the RX-7, BMW 323 and 1999+ Miata in ITS

I like the Miata, CRX, Integra and 240SX in ITA

I like the Volvo and soon to be listed Corolla GTS in ITB

I like the 510 in ITC

I'm with those who say find out which classes are most popular where you'll be racing; in our region (DC) ITA and ITB are the top classes. From your list you can't go wrong with an ITA Miata, but the Integra also does very well in that class. The CRX is a great car for either ITA or ITB. If I were racing ITS I would probably go with the RX7, but the Miata and Integra both can compete well there. Or, if I liked to wrench on cars I might even try to find an old 240Z to play with.

Now, with that said, if I were going to start an IT project today I would look at ITR; no, there isn't a huge amount of competition right now, but I think few years from now this class will have some of the best racing in IT.

For ITA I would stick with the miata. Even with more weight on it I believe its the car to have.

I think the ITS E30 is an overlooked gem honestly. It may not be the cheapest buy/build, but it is a great reliable platform, good brakes, good torque, good power, good handling. A fair amount of them are around with cages now due to Spec E30.

And, they were overlooked for years due to the presence of the E36 in ITS. They can be fast (Matt Reppert and Harold Corbin in the SEDiv do very well with theirs).

I've driven a lot of SMs and an ITA Miata, and I have to say you have to like that kind of driving experience to really enjoy the car. It's a momentum car, and very different from running a higher hp/torque S car like mine (TR8) or a Z car. If you like that kind of experience, then by all means an ITA or 99 ITS Miata are great choices.

You can't go wrong with a 2nd Gen RX7 either. Just way too many of them out there, fast, reliable and sorted.

There's absolutely no question in my mind what I'd do.

If AJ's ITA CRX is still for sale and you have the money to buy that now, I'd be all over that bad boy. It'll take you years and an assload of money to just get close to that car. I think the car is located in Ohio, but I'd finalize the deal even if that meant it sat at his place or somewhere else till you make your move. It's an amazing car at a fantastic price.

Heck, I rummaged through my house to see what I could sell (without invoking a divorce), looked at borrowing against my 401K, anything to get it. Reality set in and I'll have to stick with my Prelude.

https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=25603

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tnord

i'd be hesitant of anything miata right now. there's an angry mob wandering around determined to get more weight on the car.

otherwise, i'm with Rob (wreckerboy), research what class is popular in the area you're moving to, what types of tracks you'll be running at, and decide accordingly.

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Jeez Travis, "angry mob"? Do they have pitchforks too? Or are they running around with old double hung window weights?

If you'll be racing up here in the NE, at Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, NJMP, NHMS, etc, you'll have some top notch competition (pretty respectable if you were to rank them nationally) in ITB, ITA and ITS. ITR is growing, and the cars are getting more developed by the race.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lateapex911

Jeez Travis, "angry mob"? Do they have pitchforks too? Or are they running around with old double hung window weights?

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I dunno. Somehow "Add weight, it's a Miata!" doesn't have the same ring as "Burn her, she's a witch!"
Though unlike ducks, Miatas and stones do not float. Even very small ones.

Now, if we want to discuss the ITAC's ongoing persecution of Borgward owners.... :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wreckerboy

Now, if we want to discuss the ITAC's ongoing persecution of Borgward owners.... :)

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Here's your VTS...


http://www.gatm.com/photos/2009/HR_6639.jpg
http://www.gatm.com/photos/2009/HR_6638.jpg

[tnord] It doesn't matter, you're just going to make it up anyway! [/tnord]

I love "opinion" threads! Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and most of them stink!

My opinion, for the northeast, AWD with dirtstockers!:026:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greg Amy

http://www.gatm.com/photos/2009/HR_6638.jpg

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Holy crap, they even rated the # of BJs you'll get with the thing!


Sheesh, I honestly thought a "Borgward" was a made up name. :shrug:

---and I thought the ITAC was on top of this stuff!:rolleyes:

Excpet for the ITS E30, all of those cars are popular and are in competetive classes in New England. You can't go wrong with any of them.

But, there are so many good cars out there for sale............

Welcome to NE IT!! Where do you live??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lateapex911

old double hung window weights?.

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he he he he

I have to agree with Gran...find AJ Neeley and buy that car. In the right hands, it has proven to be one of the top 3 cars in the country (the other two also being CRX's).

Build and it will be 'fun' but it will cost you. ITR, ITS, ITA and ITB are all well subscribed up here (10-20 cars each class per race).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt

I have to agree with Gran...find AJ Neeley and buy that car. In the right hands, it has proven to be one of the top 3 cars in the country (the other two also being CRX's).

Build and it will be 'fun' but it will cost you. ITR, ITS, ITA and ITB are all well subscribed up here (10-20 cars each class per race).

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AJ's car is pretty much maxed out with no excuses left. To put it in perspective, I spent more building my ITB Civic than what he is asking for the total package. And that is doing all the labor myself.

Go with the Miata for ITA, you can be a REALLY average, REALLY non-talent driver and win all the races in your region:happy204::happy204:.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Russ Jones

Go with the Miata for ITA, you can be a REALLY average, REALLY non-talent driver and win all the races in your region:happy204::happy204:.

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You are in for it! HA!

Wow, thanks for all the responses guys! Some great leads in here. Look forward to connecting with Flatout, and wouldn't mind taking a look at Neely's CRX. Anyone have a link? Can you build a CRX to competitive ITR or EP?

I do plan to look at the region to see which classes are well attended, thought I'd start with a simple ole web question, great info. Sounds like several IT classes have good fields.

I'm not in the area yet, but you guys that are NE I look forward to meeting at some point. On one of my househunting trips I'm going to try and schedule around a track weekend and come wonder around.

Will do a bit more reading on the IT regs and some local results for NE, and will circle back.

and yes, we did do the nose.....:smilie_pokal:

What, did you not like the link I provided in my post?

You are in for it! HA!


I know I know.....but you were threatening to race a certain ITS car earlier this year so I must talk a little trash so your head doesn't continue to swell.....

Oops, thanks Dave! BTW, I bought your book and gave it to my brother. Great work!

Quick update - my job situation/relo is still in progress and I'm still researching my car situation for next year. Relo-wise paying attention to the mid-Mass areas west of Boston or possibly RI. Searches tend to start around good schools for my kids.


Looking at results sheets the most active groups in NE seem to be ITA and ITS so focusing there for now. Would eventually like to race nationally, wondering if/when IT might be a recognized national class? If not, looking at options where I could run EP in the future.


Quick question - in ITS a 2nd gen RX-7 is 2680#, but a 84-85 can weigh only 2350# and if it's a GSL-SE you get a 13B, FI, 4 wheel disks and an LSD. This seems like a good package for a 330# weight break. Even though giving up the independent suspension for live axle, is the first gen competitive? What are the weak points rotary guys? Changing from FI or stock carb to a Weber is illegal in all of IT, correct?

I believe the 13b in the first gen makes less power than the second gen due to the intake system. we do not see any around here although there was a very competitive one at the IT fest in Ohio.
Your new location is good New Hampshire and Lime Rock about a 2 hour tow each. Pocono, Watkins Glen and New Jersey between 4 and 6 hours. When Palmer gets up in 2011 you will be an hour away. You are also in Flat Outs back yard.

GSL-SE: 135hp
S4: 146hp
S5: 160hp

ITS can go to EP with further develpment. Used ITS cars are pretty good buys. The EX-Bubar / Flatout car that was recently sold was on the podium at WGI all weekend.

Thank you gents, makes sense. I talked with a buddy who is a long time rotary guy said the FI on the first gens was inferior to the S4. I would so rather run carb rotary for the simplicity, maybe an ITA first gen but they're getting spanked up there by Miatas (same as here). I looked at the SCCA WGI results, very good. Congrats on the record Mr. Gran. I'll be back in touch guys, thanks again for your guidance. Reading some of the forums y'all are having a blast and have huge fields. Looking forward to meeting you.

First gen RX7s are still popular and run in theyr own class. Can be had for short money and we usually bring enough stuff to re-build an entire car between us all. And when yours is to mangled to fix everyone scabs the parts they need,Dave... :cool:
What did you run with NASA that cant run here? Is it cool?
Dan

BMW E30. Deciding whether it would be worth the expense to ship it and all my spares or just cash out and start over after the move. I'd like to run in a faster group and I run the E30 against SMs all the time and am competitive there, so figure I'd get trounced in ITS with E30 unless I did some upgrading, but that's more money. To ship and upgrade suspension I'd probably be another $3500ish into this platform. The CRX would be cool and plenty of guys to run with in ITA, but Nealey's is bigger budget and FWD, plus running ITA in a group with ITR and ITS it might be nice to not be the slowest group in the session for a change. If it's still around at end of season I may take a look. Lastly I like the idea of having strong shop support and looking at my relo I'll be very close to FOM, so that's a factor for me also - those guys have their act together - edge to Miata or 2nd Gen.