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I am in the market for a new tow vehicle. I can't afford the deisel anything, so I am shopping for gas powered trucks. I can get a very good price on a 2500 Chevy right now. Does anyone have any comments on these? How is the fuel economy? Does it really have enough power to pull 8000-9000 lbs? Brakes? Issues?
Thanks!
Chris, I am not familiar with the Chevies, but I'm real sweet on the Ford 6.8L V-10.
It's a real nice engine, silky smooth and lots of torque and horsepower. My '99 E-350 - which is three head generations back - still pulls the 7000# 8-foot-box, 24-foot-long trailer nicely, at an average of 7mpg. It pulled Jeff Lawton's open trailer with my NX on it - and the back of the van FILLED with tools and equipment - literally like it wasn't there, at an average of 11 mpg. With only family in the back of the 15-passenger van, I average 14 mpg.
The latest generations of V-10 have much better heads: much freer flowing, plus more valves. Whereas the diesel grunts down low, the gasser loves to rev. Plus, when you're cruising in the paddock or backing it in at home in the middle of the night it's vewy, vwey qwuiet...
Obviously, with gas prices the way they are today, you can pick up (har-de-har) an F-350 with the 6.8L at bargain-basement prices. I'd recommend 2000 or later for the freer-flowing heads, or even 2005 or later for the increased number of intake valves.
For fuel/purchase cost reference, I've spent about $7000 on fuel for the truck over the last 3 years/30,000 miles. At best, I figure I've spent $1700 more in fuel than if I'd bought a diesel. But, I only paid $9,000 for the van, whereas a comparable diesel was averaging $15,000.
Knowing what I know now, that I'd be pulling a 24-foot enclosed, I'd likely give diesel a greater consideration. However, I think the later-gen V-10s are easily as capable as the diesel, at a significantly lower price. - GA
Greg, for reference, what are the hp and tq stats on that engine?
(My 5.3 2001 Chevy (GMC) is hard pressed with a narrow enclosed. It's rated at just under 300 hp and I can't remember the tq. I'll look it up. I loves to rev while towing.)
According to the Ford web site, the newest ('07) vans equipped with the V10 are rated at 305 HP @ 3250 RPM, and 420 lb./ft at the same speed, which is what (AFAIR) my '04 E350 makes. For comparison, the oil burner makes 235 @ 3300 and 440 @2000. The pick ups are rated at somewhat more (362/457), and conventional wisdom has either it that they have far less restrictive exhausts than the vans, or that the vans are downrated because of exhaust temp issues and cabin comfort. Take your pick.
I echo everything GA said - it all comes down to ROI, and for the light user (less than say 50-75K per year), it's just not there for the diesel when you factor in the increased purchase and maintenance price. And V10's are stoopid cheap - I bought my '04 E350 XLT (full interior) in mid '05 with 16K on it for about $19K. My MPG with an open trailer is around 12, and I can see 15 on the highway if I can ever keep my foot out of it.
I have a 1995 F350 XLT diesel dually 5 sp for sale right now. It has the 7.3L turbo diesel in it. I bought it from John Finger and he had it for his daughter, Amy, to drag her gooseneck horse trailer around. It isn't pretty, but it'll just about tow the house. Extra cab, longbed, gooseneck hitch (if you need it), but also has a topper on it (since I have an open tag trailer). Has about 120K miles on it, dual tanks, etc. Scaling back my racing a bit and don't need a truck payment sitting in the driveway 300+ days per year. I don't know HP and lb/ft numbers, but it sounds like others do. Just put a K&N filter in it and I average 15 or so without a load. Will get about 13 with one. If you (or anyone else) has any interest, let me know.
Scott Franklin
ITA/7 and SPU Baby Grand "clown cars" (one with FJ, the other with Hayabusa)
www.NutDriver.org
Thanks fo rthe info guys!
I have towed with the Ford V10's and they are nice.
I have a G30 Chevy van right now with a 350 TBI, and have been using it for about the last 5 years. I like vans and have had them for about 12 yrs now. It gets 12 mpg empty on the highway and 6.2 towning the beast!
The real issue right now is I can get a New 2500HD 2wd for just a little over $20,000 right now. I may need to act quickly to make it happen. The price along with it being a new truck in the same color as my trailer has me tempted. I would buy this thing and drive it for 10+ yrs. I am looking to make sure I am making the right choice for my $. My 350 has been a been sluggish all along towing my 24' trailer. The trip to Lime Rock last year nearly killed it! I want to be sure that it has enough grunt to get the job done. I plan on doing more traveling next year, Atlanta, Sebring, ect, so I want something that will not give me any crap about towing up and down grades ect.
yeah, i think you can do an 8-9k lb enclosed with the 6.0. i know a guy who hauls his AS with one and loves it. says he gets 9mpg hauling though. 14 around town.
iirc the 6.0 is like 330hp and 370ft/lbs. our 5.3 has 315ft/lbs, the new ones have 330. i've been shopping trucks a little lately, and i think my ideal setup is a 1500 6.0 hauling a 20 or 22' aluminum V nose.
i don't think i like the V10. i pulled a 24' unloaded enclosed with a F350 from Des Moines to KC once and i wasn't impressed. Another friend has been through at least 1, but i think 2 motors under warranty in his F250. I think there's a certain run of PSD's that are good, but if you're going gas, i think the GM stuff is where it's at.
Jake, my '99 in the van is 265/410 hp/tq, but as Rob pointed out *all* vans have de-rated engines versus the trucks. The 1999 F-350 pickup was 275/410, the '03 310/425, and the '07 362/457.Quote:
Greg, for reference, what are the hp and tq stats on that engine?[/b]
I spend a lot of time on the V10 forum on Ford-trucks.com, and Travis' friend's experience is way beyond abnormal. I've never heard of service problems like that before. The #1 biggest service complaint is the same as all Ford modulars: lack of sufficient spark plugs threads on earlier engines. When plugs are changed incorrectly (e.g., incorrect torque is used) they can pull the threads and spit out plugs. This was resolved post-2003(?). - GA
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Jake, my '99 in the van is 265/410 hp/tq, but as Rob pointed out *all* vans have de-rated engines versus the trucks. The 1999 F-350 pickup was 275/410, the '03 310/425, and the '07 362/457.
I spend a lot of time on the V10 forum on Ford-trucks.com, and Travis' friend's experience is way beyond abnormal. I've never heard of service problems like that before. The #1 biggest service complaint is the same as all Ford modulars: lack of sufficient spark plugs threads on earlier engines. When plugs are changed incorrectly (e.g., incorrect torque is used) they can pull the threads and spit out plugs. This was resolved post-2003(?). - GA
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Greg,
I too know of some V10 Ford engine failures. Ford has done a good job of keeping a lid on it. They have oiling issues just like the 4.6/5.4 that can cause bearing failures ect. Along with the constantly failing coil packs.
No insult intended, but I laughed when I read that. Like you can keep a lid on ANYTHING with the Internet!!!Quote:
I too know of some V10 Ford engine failures. Ford has done a good job of keeping a lid on it.[/b]
Not saying it can't happen, but it has to be pretty damn rare.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49
Click Here to see the videos of the Trucks we tested last month. IMHO, Diesel's are the only way to get an HD.
Also note that the 150/1500 trucks for the most part can do up to 10,000lbs - and they are a LOT better to live with for the 90% of the time you aren't towing.
eh....i dunno about that 10,000 lb thing. i'm guessing i'm hauling about 5k on the hitch and 800lbs in the bed and i wouldn't want to do anything more.Quote:
Also note that the 150/1500 trucks for the most part can do up to 10,000lbs - and they are a LOT better to live with for the 90% of the time you aren't towing.
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just cause the manual says you CAN do it, doesn't mean it makes for a relaxing (or swift) journey. i might hook up 10k to it if i'm just pulling it 10miles or something, but no way am i hauling 10k to a race track.
I agree, Jake.Quote:
...they are a LOT better to live with for the 90% of the time you aren't towing.[/b]
This past June Jeremy and I used his new F-350 Super Duty (diesel) to tow my trailer to HyperFest (Summit Point, ~6-7 hours). That thing towed like a DREAM! Yes, you "noticed" the trailer was back there, but when you dipped in the throttle the truck made up the speed loss up the hill a lot faster. Nice pulling truck.
But, it rode like a truck. Jeremy said he's used to it now, but that 1-ton truck rode HARD. Even with the tag trailer loaded we'd hit a bump and we really felt it; coming back through Jersey across I-78 was like driving on railroad ties.
But DAMN that thing pulled nice.
I did have one other problem with it: we were able to tow so fast (75-80 versus a typical 65-70 in my van) and so long (kept a' goin' no matter what) that I blew a trailer tire somewhere in PA. Plus side, with that truck I almost didn't notice it; had to look in the rear-views in order to see the parts flappin' around...)
Nice work truck, but I think I'd get tired of driving that every day. Jeremy loves it, though. - GA
FWIW...that F350 V10 longbed i pulled with was absolutely the worst riding truck i've ever been in, even worse than the 2500 Cummins i rode in a couple weeks ago.Quote:
But, it rode like a truck. Jeremy said he's used to it now, but that 1-ton truck rode HARD. Even with the tag trailer loaded we'd hit a bump and we really felt it; coming back through Jersey across I-78 was like driving on railroad ties.
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FWIW, my E350 (12 passenger, not the longer 15 pass like GA's) is not the most cushy thing in the world to ride around in empty either. It helps to lower the rear tire pressures from 80 for towing down to 60, but not much. Then again, it basically goes to the track or to The Big Orange Parts Store or it sits so the tire pressures are usually just left up there at "granite."
I may have to take it to North Carolina in two weeks (empty) to bring back some parts and I am not looking forward to it. My dentist and nephrologist see it differently and are planing lavish vacations accordingly....
It's funny to me to hear people complain when a truck rides like a truck :D
Keep in mind it is a truck. Every 1 ton or 3/4 ton I have ever owned rides very harshly. Doesn't concern me a bit. I live in Michigan with the worst roads in the country.
jeremy's situation leads to an interesting aspect as well. He's selling his race car, getting his MBA, and has....a truck that rides like it has concrete blocks for springs...
so....be sure of your long term plans, or, be ok with the used value you will get back selling it if you have to.
Also, high mileage versions of the HD trucks rattle and shake and give europeans more fodder for their "American cars are peices of crap" claims, LOL. (They destroy themselves, essentially)
part of the reason i think a 1500 with the 6.0 is the best compromise. a 2500 over a 1500 with the same trim will cost a couple extra grand right? so why not save that couple g's on the truck and spend it on an alum trailer instead? you'd have a far better DD, and a NICE trailer that even stays cool in the blazing sun.Quote:
jeremy's situation leads to an interesting aspect as well. He's selling his race car, getting his MBA, and has....a truck that rides like it has concrete blocks for springs...
so....be sure of your long term plans, or, be ok with the used value you will get back selling it if you have to.
Also, high mileage versions of the HD trucks rattle and shake and give europeans more fodder for their "American cars are peices of crap" claims, LOL. (They destroy themselves, essentially)
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Jake one of the other advantages of the diesel that has not been talked about is resale value. Their are so few diesel truck for sale, that I could go out and sell mine after one year and make money on it. (V10's? No so...)If you go diesel, the dodge cummins is by far the best engine, but the truck itself IMO sucks.Quote:
jeremy's situation leads to an interesting aspect as well. He's selling his race car, getting his MBA, and has....a truck that rides like it has concrete blocks for springs...
so....be sure of your long term plans, or, be ok with the used value you will get back selling it if you have to.
Also, high mileage versions of the HD trucks rattle and shake and give europeans more fodder for their "American cars are peices of crap" claims, LOL. (They destroy themselves, essentially)
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I went with the Ford for 3 simple reasons.
1. Resale
2. Quality (I know this is funny, but they are the best of the Big 3)
3. Style
When I went to the dealers and researched the market extensively, it was a no brainer to go diesel when towing.
Have you looked at the 8100 in the HD? I would not even consider the 6.0L
the 8100 is one bad mutha. too bad it's thirstier than a biker in a harley bar on dollar-draw night.Quote:
Have you looked at the 8100 in the HD? I would not even consider the 6.1L
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