84-86 Rear Civic Hubs

It appears that Honda changed the rear hubs for Civic/CRX's. From 84-85 they used a hub with a bearing with a small i.d. (stub axle has a bigger o.d.) compared to 86/87 units. Anybody know:

1) Why? Everything else appears to be the same i.e. wheel lugs and hub center o.d.

2) Will the later stub axles bolt up to an earlier axle? I was going to take the stub axles off my '86 parts car, but it got too dark out (no garage http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif so I'll have to wait until tomorrow.

It seems as if the later hubs might be stronger with a larger axle??? Plus the later hubs are about $20-$25 cheaper online.

Shouldn't be a problem legality wise since this is covered in the update/backdate rules (besides, it's for a G-prod anyway).

I could be wrong but it sounds like the smaller rear axle is an HF not DX or Si. The HF were smaller, lighter and are also not eligible for IT which is where I run, not sure about G-prod. Hope that helps. If I am wrong please let me know.
Tim Klvana
ITC #11

No,

I confirmed that the 84/85 DX used the small hubs and the 86 and later used the larger hubs. No difference between HF, DX, and Si.

Honda has two distinct part numbers for the different years.

Greg, I'll stay posted for the answer. I was under the impression that the rear axle for the HF was lighter and I thought, a different hub. I that not correct?
Tim

Tim,
The HX rear axle tube is a smaller dia. and does not have a rear (torsion bar) bar inside the tube. The DX, HF and Si all use the same rear hubs. The HF is a lot lighter.
+ or - 35 lbs. Plus the HF had alum. rear drums.

EDP

Tim,

The rear axle itself may be different. In production, axles are free so the lighter, the better.

All I know is the hubs on my 84CRX DX and 84 Civic were the same, but my 86 Civic parts car has different size hubs. Honda made a change in the bearing design on later models according to my source at the Honda parts counter. I know the older rear hubs had very weak bearing design, but fortunately they would get noisy to give you warning unlike front hubs which tend to let go catastophically. It is possible they beefed them up after the 3rd year of production. The real question is, will the stub axles from a newer model still bolt up to the older beam axle. If so, this would be a very beneficial (and legal) boneyard swap since the newer hubs are stronger and cheaper.

Tim,
The rules are kinda grey for ITC. The CRX is listed as '84-'87 CRX 1500. The HF was a 1500 in '86-'87. Plus there was an 1984 CRX that had all the HF stuff before the '85 HF was offical.

EDP

Greg,
I was let a ITC Civic guy use my spare rear hub to try, but the hub would not fit.
I had a CRX.

EDP

[ If so, this would be a very beneficial (and legal) boneyard swap since the newer hubs are stronger and cheaper.[/B][/QUOTE]

Greg,
Legal for what? IT or Prod? I see that you can buy hardened front hubs for the '88-'91 CRX/ Civic. Is this legal? No. Read the GCR.

EDP

Legal for production via the update/backdate rules.

I suppose it would be legal for IT as well since the ITCS lists all ITC Civics from 84-87 and the switch occurred in 86. Might have to replace the entire rear axle for IT if it falls under the "replace entire assembly" rule. Either way it is a cheap boneyard swap.

I agree that '88-'91 hubs are not legal for an 84-87 civic/crx, but that wasn't what I said. I said I thought the 86-87 hubs were stronger than the 84-85 hubs, based on my observation that the stub axle had a larger o.d. with no other change.

[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited September 22, 2003).]

Greg,
Do you run a prod car now? If so how do you do with it?

EDP

Finished 4th in Cen-Div.

Competed in my first runoffs and finished 25th. This with a very, very tired motor (built in 99). This shows in the trap speeds posted on the prod web-site.

Had a blast racing with about 5 other cars, and scored my 'money pass' to get by the MGB and 510 on the same lap, at the same corner (outside pass at 15).

Looking forward to a better season next year with a fresh motor and modest developement, as my budget will allow. Hopefully I'll be able to chase down Mr. Coffin next year!

[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited September 24, 2003).]

Bringing an old thread back to life.

Greg (or anyone), does this mean that the size of the rear spindle/stub axle is different on '84 models vs. later models? Does anyone know the diameter of the stub axles for the different sizes? I'm trying to determine what is on my car before I buy new hubs.

Thanks

I never found out.

In my case, I make sure that I specifically order 84 Civic/CRX hubs to make sure I have the correct size. I change rears about every two years. They seem to hold up okay despite the higher loading in Production trim.

Thanks for the response Greg. I think the original owner of my car upgraded the rear hubs, but I'm not sure. I'll order 1 hub at first and see how it fits.