Sounds ike someone who has never been to Pat's Pig or Baby Dolls!! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffYoung
Sounds ike someone who has never been to Pat's Pig or Baby Dolls!! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffYoung
Let me guess....Pat's Pig is a Kansas strip joint, and Baby Dolls is a restaurant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lateapex911
more importantly, it could reduce the number of events each region runs, making car counts at each weekend higher, and increasing financial viability.
Ahhh...of course, and that in and of itself becomes an important consideration, and yet another benefit, BUT...........Quote:
Originally Posted by tnord
....., the original question asked straight up, about "national" status, and I take that to mean "As is" today. I was going to add a "Assuming current conditions, acccck, " to the end of my post, but it seemed redundant.
HOPEfully, those in the decision making position see the implications of such an progression...i for one think that in many ways regions are overtaxed trying to run Regional races, National races, schools, and PDXs while not burning out the staff, and making sure the events turn a profit. (To ensure future regional viability).
Bottom line as it stands now... (and yes, i know this isn't a purely "is it good for IT?" point of view, but IT is PART of the club...as goes the club, so too goes IT...) ...The Runoffs are not attracting enough participants. The Club racing national championship is a shadow of it's former self, and some will argue that it's a reflection on the state of Club racing in the SCCA. To combat this, (as well as because of) it has become easier and easier to qualify.
Now, many ask "Why is the Runoffs loosing subscribers?" and the answer is of course, varied. Many point to the venue, others point to the growing irrelevance of the categories. I'd suggest it's both, but the latter weighs heavily.
Yet, our structure, and our race scheduling, are largely driven by the mandates for National races to offer Runoffs qualifying opportunities. Regions must run events as prescribed by the national requirements, and do so in certain numbers and in certain locations. Yet, it could be argued that interest is waning in that method of doing business.
Regional events like doubles, and other creative weekends (Like the IT Fest) are very well attended. The IT Fest wouldn't exist if it weren't because of Todd's vision, and his estimation of popularity of the category. Smart regions cater to the needs of the constituents, and act to ensure their survival.
I'd suggest that as Travis points out, the club as a whole would be far better off if it dropped the National/Regional distinction, allowed all national rulesets the same privileges, took a look at how people qualify to run the Runoffs, and left it up to the Regions to devise schedules that met market realities, while pushing the least amount of structure possible.
...and further, after a couple of REALLY good conversations this past weekend with some of our IT constituents who don't hang out here, I've really come to understand a couple of fundamental issues that align with what I hear Jake saying:
** Unless/until we eliminate the artificial National/Regional distinction and "make Club Racing just Club Racing," the issue of status is moot. In fact, "go National?" is the wrong question based on some bad assumptions.
** Unless/until we address compliance issues in IT, we are going to have issues. The issues are bigger if we get higher profile, but they already exist.
If these issues are addressed first, then the "logic paths" to the bad things people think will happen are disrupted, if/when IT finds itself on a par with the rest of the categories.
K
Unless at least 1/x of your regular drivers skip an event, where x is the number of regionals you hold, you lose money by dropping an event.Quote:
Originally Posted by tnord
100 drivers, 80 who compete any weekend. All compete in 4 of 5 of your events.
5*(80Fee - Rental) = 4*(100Fee - Rental).
For those unaware, it looks like Spec Miata has cross pollinated your discussions here in their forum...:024:
http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/u...73.html#000028
As I continue to read these 19 pages I continue to laugh (even outloud sometimes) with something the master of the Spec Miata site said long before Spec Miata went National when these similar discussions were taking place on the Spec Miata site.
BE VERY careful what you wish for.
$40,000.00 plus Spec Miatas at Natinal that were $20,000.00 when there was Pro Spec Miata/Miata Regional cars. At the time people thought of the $20,000.00 cars as top of the line cars. Hey they were top of the line cars, at National the line got pushed higher.
EDIT: The pigs at Pats are great. Wouldn't waste my time at Baby Dolls unless someone can assure me there is something new that these women do. By the way IIRC there are three (3) Baby Dolls in the Topeka area. Not three strippers, three separate joints.
I dropped off my Prod car at Summit Point last night for the National race this weekend. I was talking with a group of long time SCCA racers who have seen the changes and ups and downs in our club over the years. As I am the Region ITB drivers representative and involved in the DC Region they brought up IT going national. The feeling was universal that Improved Touring is nuts if they allow themselves to become a national class. They desperately want to see National racing rebuilt but not at the expense of our thriving regional program.
One point is what a cluster f**ck Runoffs tech would be with old the cars. It would make SS tech seem easy and fast. "We will have to run the IT race on Monday to clear out tech by the weekend races"
I head a bunch of good reasons NOT to make IT National or eliminate the National/Regional distinction.
This is a hot topic outside the IT world too. I told them that my opinion means little and I agree with them. So, the only thing I could think of to do is pass this along to others on the board.
Charlie
I haven't included my thoughts because my car is not really an IT car (although it could be). But I have been thinking about doing something different and even have a 91 miata parked out back that would be a good ITA base. The problem is there are so few IT cars racing around here that it doesn't make much sense to build one.
In AZ our biggest classes are Spec RX7 and Spec 944. This season for our local championship we had a total of 4 ITA participants all year -- 2 made most of the races & the other 2 came to one race each. We had 1 ITS participant (on 1 weekend) and no ITB or ITC cars all year. And this is not new. We have had few IT cars for several years now. And I don't think they went to nasa. They just are not here.
If other areas (other than the east coast) are anywhere like this then IT would seem to be a candidate for some major changes to inject some interest.
There is a lot of discussion on here from the areas with lots of IT cars. Hell, there were a lot of IT cars in the SE 20 years ago when I lived in NC. But what is the IT situation in other places (except SFR)? Is IT as healthy nationwide as you NARRC, MARRS and SARRC guys make it sound?
Hey Paul,
I think the main problem is economic, as in people have maxed out credit cards and super jumbo ARM's to buy houses that have now dropped in value. This is how it is this year but the problem has been building for the past few years. Even accounting for NASA's numbers, I think there have been more racer drop out recently. Guy's like Larry Barnes who had a bad wreck last season havn't been back.
I know that we tend to have a slow build to the number of racers over the season, but if you look at our regional points:
http://www.calclub.com/html/html2/20...s_05_18_08.htm
You'll see that outside of SM, IT is one of the healthier classes. So if you build that Miata, you need to drive out with the Spec944 guys and run some Cal-club races. Maybe we need a Western Regional Championship.
James
When I moved out here we did have a divisional championship, the Southern Pacific RRC. It was AZ, San Diego and Cal Club. It died out 8-10 years ago, about the time San Diego lost Holtville as a racing circuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3_GoCar
SFR used to host the Pacific Coast RRC each year but that has not run for some time either.
Actually Jeff, Baby Dolls is a multi functional establishment, you may get quite good food and naked women.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffYoung
I gotta agree with David D. Be careful what you wish for. The Spec Miata class is a classic example with much less National entries than last year. While I like Travis's idea of no Reg/Nat. distnction, that probably won't happen, and SCCA needs the Nationals to be their premier racing series. Word on the street is that they are going to combine FP,GP, and HP into one class, and make the Runoffs 21 classes. I guess because that allows them to add 3 more classes at their whim. The other reason for lower entries at the Runoffs is their insistance to run it at Heartland Park. Mid Ohio was a long haul, but Topeka adds another day to my towing. I and many others can't afford that, and won't attend. Keep IT Regional as the crown jewel of entry level racing! (climbing off soap box now)
As much of a useless, tasteless bore as a strip joint is, adding food to the mix just makes it, if this is even possible, even more ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat124girl
Jeff, you need to travel beyond your neighborhood, and down to the home of our esteemed safety guru Gregg Baker, who has (reportedly) spent some time studying the "Rachael's" business model. Rachael's is a steakhouse. Near the Palm Beach airport (among other locations). They will detail your car while you wait. And serve you that steak with waitresses wearing, well, you get the idea...Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffYoung
Numbers posted by CRB member Stan Clayton during June of 2007 therefore the numbers I suspect are from the year 2006. Add em up for what ever you want.
1060 SM
617 SRF
535 ITA
355 ITS
279 FV
268 ITB
197 ITE
189 VINTAGE
177 SSM
172 SRX7
155 ITC
141 EP + 243 National entries Jan-May = 384 total entries
141 FF
126 FC
123 SMT
121 IT7
111 FM
110 PRO-7
103 SPO
102 GT1
96 AS
83 F5
78 FA
77 SP
74 FP + 169 = 243
68 CF
60 DSR
60 S944
56 GT2
53 FE
52 ITR
50 SPU
48 GTL
47 GP + 75 = 122
46 CSR
45 GTA
44 FE
41 T1
39 GT3
39 SSB
39 SSC
38 S2
38 T2
36 CFC
35 T3
32 FST
25 CFF
23 ITX
21 NCF
20 CC
19 GTP
18 RS
15 BP
13 PCA2
12 PCA1
9 FSR
9 PCA3
9 ST
9 FB
6 ASR
6 ITM
5 DP
5 SPM
4 SRS
3 ITT
3 SF
2 BG
2 CP1
2 HC
2 SG-2
1 ITU
0 HP + 112