Choosing an oil cooler

I'm interested in getting an oil cooler for my Rabbit. I looked at BSI's website, and see a 19 row cooler for $277. 19 rows sounds like a lot, considering I don't race in very hot climates - the Northeast. I've seen similar ones w/out thermostatic plates and smaller coolers for less than $200.

Is a 'thermostatic' sandwich plate a good thing to have? Is it acceptable to just block off the cooler when not running very high temps?

Opinions on stainless steel vs. non-stainless for the lines? Would it be cheaper to assemble my own?

Thanks,
PJ

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83 Rabbit GTI - future ITB

PJ,

Get the biggest oil cooler you can fit under there. VW's run HOT, HOT, HOT! Thermostatic sandwich plates aren't necessary, but they will help warm up the oil faster. Even with a 19 row cooler, I routinely see 250-260F oil temps.

MC
#14 GP VW Scirocco

My recomendation is to buy the one racerparts wholesale, and buy the quick fit aeroquip hoses and fittings, this is relatively inexpensive like $120 for the whole deal, cause here the thing with oil coolers, if u buy 200 oil cool u have to get it sonically cleaned when u rebuild the engine, with a $50 oil cooler u just buy a new oil cooler, cause to sonically clean it is about 50-80 dollars. Just my opion. Mark, never heard of a vw running so hot, is there something im not aware of? With out an oil cooler in the dead of summer i only ran about 260 oil temp.

PJ, I have taken out the "thermostatic" function of my oil cooler. It does take a little bit more "warm-up" to get the oil temps up to around 100 degrees "c", but you NEED an oil cooler for the VW.

Most kits also come with the sandwidch plate, as well as the lines and cooler to mount next to or in front of the radiator.

Go with the stainless steel lines, and aeroquip fittings. You don't need oil dumping over your right front tire.



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 ITB GTI, GP for 2002

There are arguments to both sides of this i know this before i say it, but take a look the the aeroquip quick fittings and lines. One problem with stainless steel lines is that they deteriorate inside while the outside looks great, so dont know when the line is going bad. If your gonna replace the line often anyway, who cares. Second, if the quick fit aeroquip system is good enought for all the sprint car guys with 300+ hp, i think they are just fine for IT. I have had em a while and no leaks what so ever, and quick and easy to install.

Quote:

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Originally posted by madrabbit15:
My recomendation is to buy the one racerparts wholesale, and buy the quick fit aeroquip hoses and fittings, this is relatively inexpensive like $120 for the whole deal, cause here the thing with oil coolers, if u buy 200 oil cool u have to get it sonically cleaned when u rebuild the engine, with a $50 oil cooler u just buy a new oil cooler, cause to sonically clean it is about 50-80 dollars. Just my opion. Mark, never heard of a vw running so hot, is there something im not aware of? With out an oil cooler in the dead of summer i only ran about 260 oil temp.

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Derek,

Most of the ITC VW racers I know (from the SARRC and MARRS series) talk about the 1.6's running high oil temps. Maybe the 1.8's aren't so bad. Even with a 19 row cooler, I see 120C (248F) oil temps in the draft. Maybe yours runs cooler 'cause you're always out front! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

MC

Quote:

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Originally posted by madrabbit15:
My recomendation is to buy the one racerparts wholesale, and buy the quick fit aeroquip hoses and fittings, this is relatively inexpensive like $120 for the whole deal, cause here the thing with oil coolers, if u buy 200 oil cool u have to get it sonically cleaned when u rebuild the engine, with a $50 oil cooler u just buy a new oil cooler, cause to sonically clean it is about 50-80 dollars. Just my opion. Mark, never heard of a vw running so hot, is there something im not aware of? With out an oil cooler in the dead of summer i only ran about 260 oil temp.

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RPW seems to have good prices, but I'm not sure which adapter plate I need. I think it's the sandwich plate, model: PER186, with a M20 x 1.5" thread. Can someone confirm this for me?

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/filtmt.htm

Do I need to use the stock filter mount that attaches to the engine block?

Thanks,
PJ



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83 Rabbit GTI - future ITB

PJ, Normally, the sandwich plate comes with a adapter, that allows you to screw the adapter into the stock oil filter threads, and the adapter then provides the threads so you screw on the new filter onto the sandwich plate. It's only about an 1" that's added, and the oil filter still is in the basic location. No more difficult than the stock removal / replacement,

I can get you a picture if you'd like.




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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 ITB GTI, GP for 2002

PJ,

I got the sandwich plate and the True-Cool oil cooler from RPW. I think the plate was $20 and the cooler was $40. That's the least of the cost. The -10 Aeroquip stuff will cost more than the plate and the cooler put together. For example, -10 90 deg. hose ends are ~$20 each! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif

Mark,

I know VW's run high oil temps. My street A1 GTI runs at 130C at highway speeds. My VR6 Corrado used to run 240 - 250F all the time.

Another way to mitigate the oil temp issue is to add and Accusump. This will add another 2 Qts or so of oil to the system to help disipate the heat.

Something else to consider if you're going to use a high-dollar cooler is to put a secondary filter right ahead of the cooler. That way, if you pop the motor, you don't trash the cooler.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI

>>Even with a 19 row cooler, I routinely see 250-260F oil temps.

With 10.5:1 compression? Are you measuring temps prior to the cooler?



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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport Volkswagen Racing Equipment

Mark

Are you using a Euro GTI oil filter housing with built in thermostat? I used to run one with a Mocal Oil Cooler and an accusump and still saw oil temps in the 250deg range. Changing to the coolest thermostat didn't help. When I switched to a plain sandwich adaptor my oil temps dropped to the 215deg. range even when the air temps were in the 90s.

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Tony
ITC #0

The temps on my ITC motor and my current GP motor all seem about the same: 120C measured in the stock location, i.e. the oil filter mount. It measures the temp of the oil returning to the bearings after the cooler. Of course, the housing may be heated up some by the hot oil leaving the oil pump in the same housing. I don't know.

I've tried both the thermostat sandwich plate and plain vanilla sandwich plate; no difference in temps. I thought the plain one might have been bypassing?

On the new GP car, I'm not using a sandwich plate but instead -10 fittings welded to a mount that bolts in the stock oil filter mount location on the block. This will lead to separate (remote) oil filter and cooler, with the temperature measured in the return line back to the block. I'm interested to see if there's a difference.

Off to Kershaw this weekend, to see if I can beat Madrabbit15 with Mightymouse14!

MC
#14 GP VW Scirocco

P.S. Bill: my GP motor is still only 9.4:1 compression. The NEW motor (Nationals only) will be 12:1...

http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

250+ deg. in a VW motor is normal and not a problem. Just run something good like Mobil 1 0-15 and enjoy the extra HP than "no" weight oil affords.



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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport Volkswagen Racing Equipment

I know the higher temps may shorten the life of the oil, but is that really an issue w/ good synthetic (Red Line, Mobil 1, etc.) in a race engine, where it's changed pretty often? Also, in both my street car and my race car, I'm running 80 psi of oil pressure at WOT when the car's up to temp. Actually, I get this at ~4k rpm in the street car.

Actually, I see 140-145C in the street car after 30min. at 4k+ rpm (70 - 75 mph on the highway) and I've still got 75psi of oil pressure.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI

In the HP Wabbit, I milled a custom adapter aluminum block that replaces the stock VW filter mount. I used AN #10 fittings and lines, an Oberg filter, and a large cooler mounted in the right front corner next to the radiator. Oil is routed to the Oberg filter and then to the cooler. The oil temp pickup is screwed into the custom adapter on the return line side. I see about 220 to 230 degrees (F) at WOT. Off to Kershaw to play with Mark. Regards, Ryan.

PJ,

If you call RPW they will tell u which one to use for your application. If u are using a JH motor and maybe the later hydraulic head motors u need to remove the factory water-to-oil cooler to install the sandwich plate. Went u do this u will realize the the shaft for the oil filter is too long, so u need to find be assembly that holds the oil filter off of a early rabbit or scirocco, now that im thinking about it, i believe i got mine off an early golf. This will give u the clearance u need. IF u dont remove the water-to-oil cooler and put the sandwitch plate on top of that then your oil filter will hit the front of the engine cockpit. Hope this helps.

MC,

Hope to see you at kershaw, i love that place, so when are we gonna get u see u fly with that 12.5 to one motor?

Sorry,

PJ,

put your oil probe for temps the side of the oil pan, this is a more accurate reading as the oil is hot right as it comes off the crank........ good luck

I'm starting to get this now.

Tim, if you have a picture that'd be great, I know the adapters come with instructions, just want to know what I'm looking at before I order.

Thanks for all the info,
PJ

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83 Rabbit GTI - future ITB

After I took these shots, I guess that I have to get the motor cleaned.

http://12.99.116.38/racing/2002/sandwich-plate-1.jpg and

http://12.99.116.38/racing/2002/sandwich-plate-2.jpg

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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 ITB GTI, GP for 2002

Quote:

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Originally posted by racer_tim:
After I took these shots, I guess that I have to get the motor cleaned.

http://12.99.116.38/racing/2002/sandwich-plate-1.jpg and

http://12.99.116.38/racing/2002/sandwich-plate-2.jpg

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Thanks for getting those pics for me!

PJ



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83 Rabbit GTI - future ITB