944 Competitive now?

Hi all. first post here.

I am looking to get into SCCA racing (10+ yrs of roadracing bikes before) and really wanted to build an ITS 944. But from lurking around it looked like the 944s were'nt really that competitive.

I had been holding out for a 944S because I thought only it had a chance. However now I see where the regular 944 has been given a weight break. What is everyones opinion on this? Will it make the differrence?

I would really prefer to get a regular 944 and get to work, however I also don't want to build up a donkey for a horse race.

Me too. I am wondering how they are doing at the lower weight. PCA is going to run the same group as the NASA 944 cup. Some talk over there about it. All the 944's are going to be gone if they cant run closer here.

Sold my production car this weekend,and still have the 87 924S. Maybe ITS or maybe not. Have to wait to see.

Lawrence

I would say yes - as long as you are willing to do the suspension mods and get a built motor. The car could run all day with the RX7 and the E36/46. It'll cost a little more to be built right, but the reliability of a Porsche cannot be contested.

There's a very fast guy in the NE who is switching his S motor back for the weight savings.

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I would say yes - as long as you are willing to do the suspension mods and get a built motor. The car could run all day with the RX7 and the E36/46. It'll cost a little more to be built right, but the reliability of a Porsche cannot be contested.
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If I did do it, I had only ever meant to do it all the way. I have a pretty good sized and well equiped shop. Mill, Lathe, TIG, Bender, etc etc. And consider myself a pretty good fabricator.

My plan was to start with it down to the unibody and go from there. That's why I am anxious to get started, lots of work ahead!

At a minimum I was thinking completely stripped body and someones supsension kit. From what it looks like all the kits are between 3,000 & 4,000 for the whole shebang. I know I can put in a good cage. Then after i get my newbie nonsense out of the way spring for a first rate engine build. I'm right down the road from Broadfoot. What is the consensus on his work for IT?

I think that's a great plan.

Strip it to the limits of the rules, and then "ballast" where you need the weight. From what I understand the Milledge motors are about the top of the pile, so it might be worth calling him.

I think that a well driven car, well built, can do very well now.

My opinion ( having raced a 944 a few years back ) is that it will be a decent fun car but likely not a contender unless your area is devoid of well preped RX7's 240z's and e36's. The rear spring rates and the intake limit alot and I doubt ( unless you dont weigh much ) you could ever get down to minimums... That said that,the GSR's, 240sx and Preludes need some company..

I've been assured by Milledge that an early car could get down even 75 lbs lighter.

Rear spring rates are not a problem if you know where to look. I have 32mm (effective) hollow t-bars and can get up to 34 or 36 (can't remember which). That will be more than enough.

The intake is not so much the problem on the 8v 944 as the cam. No overlap. It's quite limiting.

Broadfoot....

Well, since you asked, I've yet to see a photo of a Broadfoot built/prepared IT 944 that was legal. I don't think Albert knows the IT rules or doesn't care. I pissed him off on Rennlist when I mentioned something that was illegal that he was talking about. Most of the stuff is minor, but still quite illegal and not even a grey area. I don't know Albert, but those who do think highly of him, although I've heard many many stories of his shop being very very very slow.

I'd personally stick with Milledge.

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I've been assured by Milledge that an early car could get down even 75 lbs lighter.

Rear spring rates are not a problem if you know where to look. I have 32mm (effective) hollow t-bars and can get up to 34 or 36 (can't remember which). That will be more than enough.

The intake is not so much the problem on the 8v 944 as the cam. No overlap. It's quite limiting.

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My car was a 85.5 so I dont know about the 83 and 84's but we could not get close.... We played with a couple different intakes a found a fair bit of restriction there but I agree that the cam is crap too and even with altered timing we got alot of pulse in the afm

Up to 34mm bars in the rear - got 'em in my ITB 924 now, custom-order hollow bars. Might be overkill, but I'm set if I ever hit the high banks of Daytona! ;)

Correction on the PCA deal - they're going to be running 944-spec, which is different than 944Cup... it's basically an IT-level suspension, but stock motor and gutted a little more than allowed in IT, down to around 2550 weight IIRC.

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Up to 34mm bars in the rear - got 'em in my ITB 924 now, custom-order hollow bars. Might be overkill, but I'm set if I ever hit the high banks of Daytona! ;)

Correction on the PCA deal - they're going to be running 944-spec, which is different than 944Cup... it's basically an IT-level suspension, but stock motor and gutted a little more than allowed in IT, down to around 2550 weight IIRC.
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My god thats stiff,what springs are you running up front? Do you run a rear sway bar? For that matter do you bite on a stick to keep from cracking your teeth on rough tracks.

Lawrence

LOL - no, it's not that bad, really. Gotta have good dampers, though, of course - Koni Yellows don't cut it (out of the box, anyway). I'm running 660's up front, stock front stab bar (23mm), rear cup car bar (19mm adj). Don't need those 'spensive Weltmeister stab bars, and helps keep the rears planted for traction - sure, I've got a diff, but it's kinda worn out at the moment... hopefully I'll be able to afford a fresh set of clutch discs for it before the season starts.

Actually, Spec 944 only allows 30mm T-bars and no sphericals. Not an IT suspension. I think dampers are severely restricted as well.

Sure, but I was trying to give the quick run-down, not dump all the details... for those interested in every last, there's a website... somewhere... can't remember the URL...

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My car was a 85.5 so I dont know about the 83 and 84's but we could not get close.... We played with a couple different intakes a found a fair bit of restriction there but I agree that the cam is crap too and even with altered timing we got alot of pulse in the afm
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There are only two legal settings for cam timing:

1. Leave it where it ends up after milling the head (only if the timing isn't adjustable)

2. Stock

The rules allow for ajustable cam gears if origially on the car, but in that case, do not allow for anything other than stock settings.

Grafton

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Sure, but I was trying to give the quick run-down, not dump all the details... for those interested in every last, there's a website... somewhere... can't remember the URL...
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Hey Vaughn, my only point is, don't expect to be able to run an IT car in Spec 944 unless said IT car is woefully under prepared.

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Hey Vaughn, my only point is, don't expect to be able to run an IT car in Spec 944 unless said IT car is woefully under prepared.
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George,

I have a 87 924S and was thinking about spec 944. I ran 944 Cup on the right coast. I looked at the rules and have no problem with them. I also had camper boxes on the T tube carrier that allowed me to add a lot of neg camber to the rear wheels. If I still use rubber or plastic on the trailing arm bushings can I still change the adjustment for added neg camber with spec? It will not change the location points only the angle. I know you cant slot for the front but you can use camber plates. This is kind of like camber plates for the rear.
Lawrence

944 spec uses a rather basic suspesion. More similar to IT and PCA stock class, but still not full up IT car.


Rules are such that you strip the car and are allow a few more things to pull. Weight is 2600lbs with driver so it is a bit higher then the new IT limit. Given the more liberal stripping rules it should be easier to get to weight in a 944 spec car and should not need to strip it all the way down complete.


Engine prep rules are very limited. The intent is to have Junkyard motors running at the front. We achieve that now. We don't figure in a 25% power gain. More like 5% powergain as most cars are 128 to 135rwhp.

Suspension rules don't allow metallic bushings/bearings etc. Only stock rubber, polygraphite or delrin. Rears are limited to 30 mm t-bars which comes to 335lbs-in. That limits front spring rates to the 250 to 450lbs-in range. Shocks are limited to off the shelf koni yellows and bilsteins.

Wheels are spec to two forms of stock wheels and tires are spec at 225/50 R15 Toyo RA-1's

All the details are located at http://944spec.com

BTW...We came to 2600lbs as a min class weight with driver by taking weights of a few stripped 944's. Seemed at the time like most cars and drivers could make 2600lbs by just taking all the stuff not needed for racing out of the cars. Over the years we have some cars below the 2600lbs ( for example add 40-55lbs of ballast) and others seem to struggle a bit. Given that 2600lbs seems like reasonable weight that can be easily achvied by most, but at the same time allow the cars to be fast and fun. It is interesting that the ITAC came to 2575lbs as their class weight as it very close to what we figured in as the ideal comproise between fun and cost.

What I can tell you is that a fully built 944 spec car is still too slow for ITS. Even at 2600lbs the car is better suited for ITA given the limited engine prep and suspension. Assuming you can get 20% more hp from the car and do a bit more suspension work it might be ok in ITS.