i am doing the timing belt on a 944 and i dont know the marks can some one help
Printable View
i am doing the timing belt on a 944 and i dont know the marks can some one help
You'll find your answers here:
http://www.clarks-garage.com/
But remember, you are required to have the FSM for your car. For the 944 that means not only the 944 manuals, but to be complete, it would also require the 924 manuals since the 944 manuals don't cover things that are covered in the 924 manuals.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
What?!!?! My BMW manual doen't cover what the 924 manual does either - I certainly don't need one (to meet the rules anyway). The same goes for the 944 crowd (who as I recall should have a set of encyclopedias for the workshop manual).Quote:
Originally posted by Geo:
For the 944 that means not only the 944 manuals, but to be complete, it would also require the 924 manuals since the 944 manuals don't cover things that are covered in the 924 manuals.
Grafton
I'm sure your BMW doesn't share large assemblies with the 924 either.Quote:
Originally posted by GKR_17:
What?!!?! My BMW manual doen't cover what the 924 manual does either - I certainly don't need one (to meet the rules anyway). The same goes for the 944 crowd (who as I recall should have a set of encyclopedias for the workshop manual).
Grafton
You apparently don't know about the 944.
The early 944 shares considerable stuff with the 924. Things that are covered in the 924 manuals that apply to the 944 are not covered in the 944 manuals. I found this out the hard way.
I actually doubt there are many 944 owners/racers who have the 924 manuals. Most assume like you did and I originally did that the 944 manuals would be all you need. Makes sense. Well, not to Porsche apparently.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
is the 944 a free spinning motor I.E if the belt breaks do the valves bend
Actually my dad and I ran a 944 for 6 years, won the first ARRC enduro, as well as the first 2 longest night 24 hour enduros. For what it's worth, we still have a bookshelf full of one 944 workshop manual. My point is, per the ITCS you only have to have the workshop manual for the car you race, certainly not one from another spec line. I would hope someone on the ITAC would know this.Quote:
Originally posted by Geo:
You apparently don't know about the 944.
Grafton
It is an interference (sp?) engine. You will bend the valves.Quote:
Originally posted by stefand1234:
is the 944 a free spinning motor I.E if the belt breaks do the valves bend
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
What you aren't understanding is that some of the information is not in the 944 manuals. For some of the information you must have the 924 manuals.Quote:
Originally posted by GKR_17:
Actually my dad and I ran a 944 for 6 years, won the first ARRC enduro, as well as the first 2 longest night 24 hour enduros. For what it's worth, we still have a bookshelf full of one 944 workshop manual. My point is, per the ITCS you only have to have the workshop manual for the car you race, certainly not one from another spec line. I would hope someone on the ITAC would know this.
Grafton
From the first page of the 944 manuals:
"Only those repair jobs deviating from those of vehicle type 924 are described in the 944 Workshop Manual. Refer to the 924 Workshop Manual for all other information."
So, from the mouth of Porsche, you need the 924 manuals to have the full information. If tech wished to check something not covered in the 944 manuals because it's covered in the 924 manuals and you don't have the 924 manuals you would be non-compliant.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Stephan, wow you never got an answer to your orignal question. HEre it is. The cam sprocket has a small mark, line this up with the mark on the back of the aluminum cover that sits behind it, its there look close. Then move the engine to top dead center, remove the first spark plug, place a long plastic straw or something, and slowly hand crank the engine (put a large wrench on the front)as the straw gets pushed (by the #1 piston) to the top then hangs there is about top dead center. Then to actually find the exact TDC, look on the drivers side back of the engine, through the top, sort of where the engine is bolted to housing, there is a small square hole where you can see the fly wheel spinning around. The flywheel will be marked for TDC (usally a line), have your friend turn the engine really slow till you see the mark. When the mark is in the middle of the square hole you are at top dead center. Go back to the belt now and line up the two timing marks I talked about earlier, slip the belt on and your set.
He got better. He got linked to a site with excellent instructions and photos.Quote:
Originally posted by RR:
Stephan, wow you never got an answer to your orignal question.
Well, I just did all this yesterday.Quote:
Originally posted by RR:
HEre it is. The cam sprocket has a small mark, line this up with the mark on the back of the aluminum cover that sits behind it, its there look close. Then move the engine to top dead center, remove the first spark plug, place a long plastic straw or something, and slowly hand crank the engine (put a large wrench on the front)as the straw gets pushed (by the #1 piston) to the top then hangs there is about top dead center. Then to actually find the exact TDC, look on the drivers side back of the engine, through the top, sort of where the engine is bolted to housing, there is a small square hole where you can see the fly wheel spinning around. The flywheel will be marked for TDC (usally a line), have your friend turn the engine really slow till you see the mark. When the mark is in the middle of the square hole you are at top dead center. Go back to the belt now and line up the two timing marks I talked about earlier, slip the belt on and your set.
1. Unless the engine was set up wrong in the first place, when the cam is lined up the engine will have to be at TDC. The only difference would be caused by error in lining up the cam. It should always be verified in the view port on the bellhousing.
Care needs to be taken with lining up the balance shafts. The cogs have two keyways and must be oriented correctly or the engine will have a huge vibration at 3-4k rpm. My friend's car that I worked on yesterday had one balance shaft off by 180* because this wasn't done right.
I again suggest Clark's Garage for the proper procedure.
Oh, and the "straw" method is not a good idea. For one thing it's not very accurate and for another, the spark plug is set and an angle to the piston.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Quote:
Originally posted by Geo:
If tech wished to check something not covered in the 944 manuals because it's covered in the 924 manuals and you don't have the 924 manuals you would be non-compliant.
I'd make a $25 bet that neither an SOM court nor the Nat'l court would agree with that opinion.
[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited September 22, 2004).]
If you have the non-spring loaded tensioners you will need the tensioner guage. And the tensioners can be turned clockwise or counter-clockwise. One is tensioned one-way and the other is opposite. I have to be looking at a car to rememember which is which. Baum tools has the guage but its pricey. And delicate too. Don't drop it!
Tom
Perhaps. But what's the point then of requiring the FSM in the first place? In this case, the 944 FSM doesn't cover everything and even states that some of it is covered in the 924 FSM. So what's the point of having an FSM?Quote:
Originally posted by JohnRW:
I'd make a $25 bet that neither an SOM court nor the Nat'l court would agree with that opinion.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
George, no shit Sherlock about the straw, its only used as a basic reference as to where the engine is, if you read my post to really find TDC you must look at the flywheel. When turing the engine the flywheel goes fast, so the straw will get you close, and the flywheel mark will get you dead on.
Everyone makes things so frigging complicated.
The point, my dear friend Watson, is that the straw is not necessary and doesn't do such a hot job anyway. If you like up the cam and it was set up correctly in the first place, you will see the line on the flywheel in the window. That is the uncomplicated method.Quote:
Originally posted by RR:
George, no shit Sherlock about the straw, its only used as a basic reference as to where the engine is, if you read my post to really find TDC you must look at the flywheel. When turing the engine the flywheel goes fast, so the straw will get you close, and the flywheel mark will get you dead on.
Everyone makes things so frigging complicated.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Hey man,
You're both right!! I've seen flywheel marks so cobbled up that you couldn't tell where they were in the window. So a straw could help. I've had to clean up the flywheel and put some white paint down just to find it.
Y'all are forgetting we're all automotive geniuses here, just like wile e coyote! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif
Tom
Tom, having just done this job on Tuesday and again a few weeks ago, I can say that even using the cam to line the car up at TCD can get you off by one tooth at the flywheel.
It's a real PITA to do sometimes to see that line though. When I pull mine apart I'm going to so some things to make it more obvious.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
I've done that too. Mostly I get the balance shafts wrong or under-torqued. The flywheel line gets covered over with crud, especially on a turbo (heat I guess) and sometimes its next to impossible to find in that window. Especially on a turbo because of the extra suff in the way.
Another thing I hate is the way the 2 crank sensors next to the window break when its time to replace them. I've had them break off in the hole and had to use a slide hammer to extricate them.
Tom