Years of eligibility

Hey, reading this:

"No chassis or engines older than 1985 will be eligible, except that model runs that began before 1985 are eligible (e.g., if a model was produced in 1983-1988, the 1983 and 1984 cars are eligible)."

I have a VW scirocco with a VIN before 1985, but Sciroccos were produced between 1976 - 1988. Styling changes occurred in 1983 but the chassis & suspension all stayed the same. So would my car be eligible in Super Touring? I think since the rule says "model" then the answer is yes. If not, then where is the definition of "model" that would provide clarity? There is none in the technical glossary.

If your particular chassis run was built after 85 then yes its OK. An example would be an E30 BMW, built from 84-91. Even though my chassis is an 84 its still the same as the 85 and newer E30s. Now, Camaros are still being built, thus after 85, but the 67-69 ( and so on) Camaro isn't OK. OK?:blink:

So in the particular case of the scirocco, all sciroccos built from 1975 to 1988 are considered the "A1" chassis, but 1983-later cars looked different than the earlier cars. I don't see what is considered a "model" defined in the rules anywhere. I think this situation is analogous to the Ford Mustangs from 1979 - 1993 where the cars changed appearance, engine specs, transmissions, went from carbs to fuel injection, but yet were all considered to be the same chassis designation. My understanding is that you could run a Mustang with a 1979 VIN in super touring and I think this is also the case for the VW scirocco.

Evan, can't give you an "official" answer - I don't have one - but since the '88 Scirocco is still the A1 chassis, it's an interesting argument. As you pointed out, there's no clear definition of "model" in the GCR.

If you're interested in running in Super Touring, send a request to the CRB for review, and include these points (and anything else you can offer in your favor).

GA

If you are building an ST car under the ST rules the car has to be an 85 or newer, Period! IF you are running an ITB Scirrocco built to the ITB rules in STU it can be an 83-88. Since the Scirocco is under 2L it can run in STU also. HOWEVER, even though the ITB spec line for the car list 83-88 the STL rule says 85 or newer with no exceptions. SO, the 83-88 can run in STU in its ITB prep only the 85-88 can run in STL.(This part came from the northern contingent of the division tech crew not letting an 84 crx si run STL and was upheld by the tech steward at a recent event. Not all of us agreed with their interpretation of the rules.)

Clear as mud.

GCR 9.1.1.B (page 452 in the 2012 print edition and 456 in the May update on the Website) will provide the answer you seek.

Here, I'll do it for you.

B. Eligibility
Vehicles meeting one of the following criteria may compete in the Super Touring category:


1985 and newer cars built specifically under these ST rules

• Any GCR listed IT cars, 1985 and newer, under their current IT specifications may compete in STU. GCR listed ITS, ITA, ITB, and ITC cars with reciprocating piston engines of 2 liters and less engine displacement, 1985 and newer, may compete in STL under their current IT specifications.

So we go off to the ITB class spec and find:
Volkswagen Scirocco II 8V (83-88) 4 Cyl SOHC

And the First Paragraph of 9.1.4.A has the specific wording to clarify the model question:
"No chassis or engines older than 1985 will be eligible, except that model runs that began before 1985 are eligible (e.g., if a model was produced in 1983-1988, the 1983 and 1984 cars are eligible)."


(ok let's see how bad I screwed it up this time since my mental train got so seriously derailed in the prior attempt)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jhooten

GCR 9.1.1.B (page 452 in the 2012 edition) will provide the answer you seek.

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I think you mean 9.1.4.B ("Eligibility"), which is p456 in the May edition. The rule I suspect you're referring to states:

1985 and newer cars built specifically under these ST rules

However, what Evan is referring to is 9.1.4.A, "Purpose and Philosophy", which states:

No chassis or engines older than 1985 will be eligible, except that model runs that began before 1985 are eligible (e.g., if a model was produced in 1983-1988, the 1983 and 1984 cars are eligible).

Evan's question is in regard to the term "model"; what does it mean? His 1981 (?) VW Scirocco is VW internal designation code "A1", same as the clearly-eligible 1988 "A1" Scirocco. The significant difference between the 1981 and the 1988 "A1" Scirocco is sheet metal; they look different. Otherwise, it's the same car.

I'm not arguing either way, I'm simply pointing out he's got a legitimate question.

GA

Well crap What did I do now? My post went away when I went to edit it. I was looking in the hard copy edition first then went to the may update online and was trying to cut and paste from the updated GCR and Lost it.

The ITB spec line for the Scirocco is 83-88. That would be the years that are eligible for ST.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jhooten

Well crap What did I do now? My post went away when I went to edit it.

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I undeleted it; you can edit it now.

Quote:

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The ITB spec line for the Scirocco is 83-88. That would be the years that are eligible for ST.

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That's a reasonable piece of evidence for consideration, but in the end the regs for Improved Touring have absolutely "no controlling legal authority" for Super Touring regs... - GA

OK clarification request sent to CRB, letter #8143 look out for it Greg!

Well apparently both my letters have been reviewed by STAC, anyone want to give a sneak preview?