Bilstein vs. Koni

Well, its winter bench racing time, and I'm in the market for some new shocks. I've been running the Bilstein Sports for 3 seasons, replaced one set on the front, original on the rear, stock valving. Problem is, after half a season, I notice there is play in the piston. I want to replace these with a shock that can handle a 600# spring in the front and a 400# in the rear. I've heard a bunch of differeing opinions on the two, but they are the two top choices in my mind. My sports rode good but, they were a little bit overwhelmed under heavy load. I've heard that the Koni's are an ok shock but have a tendency to over heat quicker than the Bilsteins, while the Bilsteins are superior because they are self adjusting in dampening??? Also I'm having a hard time tracking down the proper Bilstein shock that I am looking for. Its the full bodied shock, not the drop in style. So whats everyone like and why?

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87 ITB Scirocco
HighSpeed Motorsports

Quote:

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Originally posted by Scirocco#28:
while the Bilsteins are superior because they are self adjusting in dampening???

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That's some new technology. Be careful if they have three self adjusters, they are illegal.

I'm sorry, that's not the response you wanted to hear, but it amazes what kind of crap gets spread around about shocks.

Send the Bilsteins in and have them rebuilt to match the spring rates you have or want to have on the car. My car would porpoise at different points on the track with brand new sports. After revalving them the porpoising stopped and I could fly through the offending corners with ease. I even managed to hit the rev limiter in places where I had never been able to in 7 years of racing on the same track.Bilstein, Truesports and several others can rebuild them for you.

Hey Steve, So I take it there is no shock out there OTC that would handle these rates of springs? Is there a supplier in Canada that can revalve? And in my case, what do I do if I dont have shocks now? Do I buy a used set and have them revalved?

What about using Bilstein Sports from a heavier A3 VR6???? I have a 1992 Golf, as oppose to steve who has the rocco....

Thanks,

Andrew

Steve,

The sports were never really intended to handle the energy in the springs that you are using (550#F and 350#R right?). The ones you really want are the race inserts that were meant for these springs.

If you are going to think about new ones, then I can't say enough about the Koni's that I got from BSI, adjustable and really easy to set up.

Barring the new option, then you really need to have your current shocks sent back and get them re-valved for the spring rates that you use.

FYI regular sport shocks were intended for spring rates between 200#R and 300#F, so you are almost doubling the energy that they are having to cope with.

Call me if you want more info....

Cheers,



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Colin Harmer
ITB 2-Red Golf
Halifax, NS

http://www.motorsportsolutions.ca
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by Scirocco#28 (edited November 14, 2002).]

Quote:

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Originally posted by metalworker: That's some new technology. Be careful if they have three self adjusters, they are illegal.

I'm sorry, that's not the response you wanted to hear, but it amazes what kind of crap gets spread around about shocks.

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What amazes me is that you would choose to belittle me for asking a question about something I don't fully have a grasp on. The only crap being spread here is in your popintless reply. You didn't even have an opinion on anything. I guess I could just go out and buy the most expensive option because it has to be the best right...

This is what I'm talking about

Bilstein Mono-Tube Gas High-Pressure Shock Advantages

The mono-tube allows a larger hydraulic piston to be used for increased control and sensitivity to road conditions.
The shock body is exposed to direct airflow, lowering the operating temperature of the internal components and fluid, extending shock life.
High pressure (350 psi) nitrogen gas is separated from the oil chamber by a specially designed, close tolerance, floating piston that maintains constant pressure against the hydraulic fluid completely eliminating fluid aeration (foaming) which is the cause of shock "fade".
Spring-steel valving discs precisely regulate oil flow continually adjusting for optimum control and ride.
No check-valves or springs to wear out.
Self-lubricating rod guide and end seal ensures long life and prevents leakage.

So, anyway. I realize my shocks aren't the best setup, but am I better off getting my sports rebuilt and valved for my setup, or looking at something designed for higher loads that might be more durable as well. The Koni's seem to work well, but the price is a bit scary, and I have a line on Bilsteins.

Any more opinions? Keep em coming!

BTW congrats to Dino and Colin, kickin ass in VW's at the ARRC!




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87 ITB Scirocco
HighSpeed Motorsports

Steve,

I believe if you buy the Bilstein Group I race struts for your car, they will handle the 600# springs in the front. That's what I'm using on my car, and I have 650# springs. For the rears, you'll need some custom valving. I went w/ 230/72 on Bilstein Sports for a 450# spring.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

That is some good hard specifics Bill. Thanks !!!! Can these springs be bought off the shelf? Ill have to check a few companies up here in canada.
Colin, Id like to try the Konis but Id also like to get them from a canadian company because of the exchange rate.....


Andrew

Andrew,

Call Ed Cullen (Ed races the Hyundai Accent) at R&D Performance in Truro at 902-893-3795. They can get you a decent price on the Konis. I am leaning towards the Konis too to replace the GABs on my Suzuki Swift.

Andrew, sure, you can buy pretty much any spring you want from Eibach, Hypercoil, etc.

If you're talking about the shocks, yes, the Group I front race struts for an A1 are OTS (off the shelf). The rears are custom valved (done by Bilstein on brand new Sports, and shipped to my door).

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

Andrew,

You can find a Canadian supply if you like but in general there are few economies betweeen the USD price and the CAN$ price. I will tell you this, that if you are looking for the real McCoy in regards to a VW A2 set up then you need to get the ones from Stu at BSI, there's a lot of valving research in these and they don't come from anywhere else.

Sadly there are no short cuts...Spring rates, suspension geometry, etc etc etc all add up to a very specific requirement. Don't buy twice, get it right the first time, trust me, I have been through 3 differnect sets of struts (Tokico, Bilstien and now Koni) before I got it right.

Cheers,

Colin

[This message has been edited by Colin Harmer (edited November 16, 2002).]

Quote:

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Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Steve,

I believe if you buy the Bilstein Group I race struts for your car,

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Thats what I was looking for, thanks Bill. I have a p/n now so I'm going to look into it. For some reason, I'm stuck on Bilsteins. They were a little over worked on the race car, but the threaded bodies on my every day car, work very well. And everyone I've talked to that runs the Bilsteins have nothing bad to say. I know there are a few other people on here that are running ITB roccos, what type of shocks are you guys running?


Steve


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87 ITB Scirocco
HighSpeed Motorsports

http://www.autotech.com/shocks.htm#bilstein

I just found this thanks to Derek L....

We also use the Koni's from Stu, I was wondering when this would make it back up..

We love the ability to change our setup. You will find that you can really tune the car. Something you can never do with a non-adjustable. We did have the Bilsteins on one car to start and after changing he would never go back. Also, our cars have never been slow in the rain, it's a 10 minute change including the bar. The ARRC enduro was our first time out in the rain there and we managed a very respectable start. My time was only 1.5 seconds off Chris's and it was my first time driving his car - we would have only dropped behind Derek (in B) with my time. (If we just could have kept our tranny's together)

One thing, aren't the sports and heavy duty twin-tube shocks? Just courious, I thought that the Race were the only Monotubes. A mono-tube does resist heat better, but you would only notice if you were doing a rally. A PROPER twin-tube is fine and will never overheat. (You can't put a Bilstein sport on a car with 2.4+ Hz front ride frequency and expect it to live - that's a guess, I don't have the dimensions or masses for an A1).