Hello Guys:
Could you guys post pictures of the ballasts normally used and it's location as well as the unusual ones. If any chance you have pictures of non allowed ballast that would be great as well.
Thanks,
:dead_horse:
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Hello Guys:
Could you guys post pictures of the ballasts normally used and it's location as well as the unusual ones. If any chance you have pictures of non allowed ballast that would be great as well.
Thanks,
:dead_horse:
One of my favorite subjects. :)
In this photo of an unnamed ITB car, there is 50 lbs of illegal ballast. Hint - it's not the 22 gallon fuel cell, nor anything in it.
The spare tire (which may be removed) only weighs 50lbs? You folks in MiDiv aren't trying hard enough.
Regardless, the ST ballast rules are considerably different than IT.
Be careful...I've had Tech ask me to remove my spare a few times, just to check for water and/or concrete. It didn't bounce when he tried (no pressure) but there was air inside...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg
Queue IT nerd discussions regarding "air" being freely replaced with something else...like nitrogen. Or water. Or concrete. Review "unintended function" reg first, please... ;) - GA
That ballast certainly isn't secured properly.
The spare? If that's the way it came from the factory, then it's compliant to the regs even if it's just an 1/8" bolt. Not smart, but compliant because technically it's not "ballast", it's the spare that's allowed to remain.Quote:
Originally Posted by OUBob
When I chose to leave the spare in my ITA car I added a 1/2" bolt through one of the wheel holes to tie it through the floor. After arguing with a scrutineer regarding leaving the spare in (he eventually concurred that it's allowed) he started to get me for non-compliant ballast (the bolt weighs something). I pointed out to him that one, hardware is free, so I "can" replace the factory tie-down bolt with something sturdier and two, did he really want to force me to leave a ~25# mini-spare back there when secured with only a cheap-grade 1/8" bolt? He gave in. - GA
It could be bolted, but I see a ratchet strap. If the ratchet strap is needed then it shouldn't be passing tech.Quote:
Originally Posted by OUBob
In my previous B car, I put a bulkhead that closed off the exposed trunk. Spoke with Topeka's primary tech guy before doing it and he agreed it met the rules. It was a nice way to add some weight in the back of the car - I mean add to the safety.
As some have guessed, the tire was full of something besides air. Sand, to be precise, 50 lbs of it. The spare (full of nothing but air) weighed 37 lbs.
The spare was bolted to the car using one of the lug holes and an added bolt & nut. The stock setup was a ratchet strap, although it may have been black as opposed to red. :D
Yes... this was my car, as purchased. Also FWIW, I just so happened to agree with Greg A (and still do), so I removed the sand based on the "prohibited function" clause.
Great stories folks, KEEP'EM COMING!!! also pictures of correctly placed and stacked ballasts.
Only ballast I've ever needed.. completely legal and there's absolutely no argument about where I choose to put it.
http://cdnl.complex.com/m.php/CHANNE...09/beergut.jpg
^^^^Nice! There goes my appetite.:D
Over on the brown board someone would have said 'dead hookers' in the trunk.
Since ballast is supposed to be in the passenger's area, best way I have found to secure it is to utilize the seat mounts. The Miata has a pair of 1/2" plates each about 40#, one bolts to the seat mounts, the other bolts to the first plate w/ tapped holes (because its easier to undo 4 more bolts than lift all 80 pounds at once). Way back I needed 50# in my nissan, so I used a pc of 4x4x1/2 square tubing, welded end plates on and threaded port and pored in lead shot to the desired weight. Both of these methods were the easy button since all the parts were free to me from work and other home projects.
What kind of car are you brainstorming for?
Seems to me some old bar bell weights are the easy button bolted to the floor of the car. I habe recently dropped a pile of weight from the drivers seat and will need to add back into ballast. Some reason my idea is no good?
That's the common way to do it. cheap and works. just make sure whatever you bolt it to the floor with (and the floor itself) is stout enough to take an impact. there are some specific regulations on that in the GCR now. brain is too tired to quote chapter and verse, but it's in there. possibly in IT rules, possibly the general safety section- I don't remember now.Quote:
Originally Posted by raffaelli
But yeah, lots of guys I know have a pile of plates in the pass side floor.
Steel flywheels work.
We use 2x3 steel filled with melted wheel weights. Local circle track guy makes 'em, they slide into the frame rails of their cars. Mount with 2 bolts each (1/2 inch). If you use really thick back up washers, you get even more ballast, even lower. These "tubes" weigh 35 lbs each.
Google "mayco industrial noise control with lead" and then follow their recommendations for sound control?
Xian had a very well built ITA 4door civic and had interesting rear bar mounts for his speedway bar in the back. Not absurd in size but quite stout.
This is where it gets iffy. Gran's example of the bulkhead is a good one. Aluminum foil may meet the letter of the rule (don't recall a min/max thickness for it) and surely 2" thick we would agree is for other than intended purposes.
But what thickness in between is the cross over from too little to too much? Is it defined in the GCR? My personal opinion is the max thicknesses would be something like 2x the metal I am welding to.
But that is because if I get too much difference then I burn holes in the thinner material.
Mine was what I considered to be a reasonsable thickness but that's subjective as there is no max / min thickness (at least when I had the car). Was no more than 1/4" thick (think less). Material to be used? Again, subjective, right? Does one need to use aluminum? Does using another material really go against the GCR of having a bulkhead? I had bolted mine in and it could have been easily be removed and inspected if it came down to it.
I also had the spare (donut) and the associated twist jack in the trunk. I've seen people have a full size spare when it only came with the sonut.
Add back little things that were removed. Mine had rear seat belts - not much but still a few pounds here and there. Rear trim pannels. All adds up.
Many moons ago, there was a case that passed through the Court of Appeals. A Spec Miata driver, trying to increase ballast in an advantageous (?) area, used 2" thick steel for the plate holding his kill switch. The Court agree with Scrutineering that the 2" thick steel was excessive and represented an unintended function.Quote:
Originally Posted by tom91ita
The competitor's appeal was denied.
There's always the trick of using 1.5" solid steel bar on some of the non-essential cage tubes. that's some heavy crap! since it's non-essential parts of the cage, it doesn't have to meet the same diameter and wall thickness specs as the rest of the cage. (then again, the GCR lists minimum all thickness. this is just tubing with a wall thickness of 1/2 the tube diameter! ;) )
^^^^^. And probably safer since it's welded to the cage rather than bolted to sheet metal.
Not sure if this will work, but I tried to attach 2 photos to this response. It's what 255 lbs looks like for the privelege of going from ITA to ITB back in 2009. A bit imposing, ya know? Huge bolt down the middle and strapped in big time. Fotunately it's all gone now. And no huge jump in lap times.Quote:
Originally Posted by raffaelli
OK it worked. To clarify, my car was already about 75 lbs over ITA weight, so this is about 150 lbs added including the strapping.
:eclipsee_steering:
allowed components that may be freely added or removed are good ballast - cool suit coolers, fire systems, oil accumulators (accusump), mufflers, sway bar brackets, strut tower bars... just keep it tolerable and most of the time you will be found compliant. exploit hard and you can get dinged. actual ballast, as in material added specifically to meet minimum race weight must meet ballast rules in the ITCS, 9.1.3.D.9.l - 50lb sections max, removable, 2, 1/2 in grade 5 bolts, big washers, lock nuts, etc... usually this will be gym weights in some sort of containment system, plates of metal, lead bricks, shot-filled boxes, etc... google ballast box for some good ideas but remember the IT rules when you implement them, they are specific and unique.
unfortunately, AJ's ballast stack was illegal as ballast must be retained by 2 or more 1/2in grade 5 or higher bolts in IT (9.1.3.D.9.l.2)
I run a 3Qt accusump in the "frunk" of my MR2, slight weight shift. big oil cooler, steel radiator over Al (not overheating, weighs more), cool suit cooler in the frunk, etc... move legal weight forward. I have a ~33# lead brick bolted just forward of the forward seat mount cross brace up against the rocker.
Actually, what you don't see is the fore/aft steel strap was bolted to the floor with 4 bolts and nuts, 2 on each end, which did meet the requirement. Believe me, I didn't want to see that thing come loose!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip42
:D
Solid "tubing" is illegal IMHO.
Tubing is required to be manufactured by drawn over mandrel as I understand it.
That's why I installed a 2" long section of tubing with an inspection hole to prove I used tubing. :rolleyes:
It's not tubing, it's a heavy-ass gusset!Quote:
Originally Posted by tom91ita
It's illegal and has been tested in the past.
Before my EG Civic in ITA had its min weight lowered, I used two of these in the passenger component, bolted to the floor by 2 G9 bolts/nuts for each bar.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/25-Lb-...last,7014.html
There's a 50 lbs bar just in case you want to get crazy.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/50-Lb-...last,2164.html
That's so cool! Just add 50% shipping and you'll also need "hazardous material" decals on your car!
:024:
Similar to Chip's.. before weight reduction. In MR2.. factory legal spare tire, 4 loaf pans of lead, accusump, all the factory bits bolted on the underside of the car, etc..
When I ordered them, the sales guy placed each one into a USPS "if it fits, it ships" box. shrugQuote:
Originally Posted by ajmr2
I inherited a similar weight stack from Mike's car which came out of the DC region. single strap made of 1" box section, the strap secured on both ends by 1/2" bolts. the floor had a thick steel plate with a pipe in the center of the steel barbell weight stack, and that plate was welded to the floor. insane contraption, and was questioned by tech on multiple occasions. glad it's now just a tripping hazard in my garage.Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmr2
Since the weight drop I know just have the one "loaf" of lead. we melted a bunch of tire weights into loaf pans to make blocks of 25-33 lbs. each. stamped each with some fun acronyms that need not be share din public but reflected our sentiments toward the political origins of the weight.
anyone want ~200# of barbell weights and a rig to mount them?
Not exactly ballast but a friend installed a piece of roll cage tubing in the car to protect wiring etc from the passenger compartment to the engine bay.
I used 1.5" pool vacuum hose because it was simple and cheap. But if you wanted to add several pounds in an unorthodox method that would not attract attention.......
A solid bar is just tubing with infinite wall thickness. You can just pick very thick gauge DOM, bigger mounting plates, etc., if you believe that strategy is illegal.
My personal favorite is a thick walled stainless exhaust system. Heavy and down low.
cage rules require DOM tubing. solid bar is not DOM tubing and doesn't meet the definition of gussets in the glossary especially if used as a cage member, even an optional one.
tubing = tubing. Pretty simple.
...
I just bolted a pair of 1"x9"x18" steel plates (maybe they were 1.5".... they were about 50# each) to the passenger floor area per the rules.
I also retained the asphalt sound deadening, sand bag vibration dampers and interior carpeting, since spread all over the floor was an excellent location for weight.