Lime Rock Park...sigh.

back in the day, I remember some great big time races at Lime Rock. Pretty recently too. AMLS was pretty recent. IMSA, Rolex, multiple big days every year. Some years I had to pick, because I was going to Lime Rock all...the ...time.

Won't be a problem this year.

THey have ONE significant Pro race, the Conti Challenge.

Don't get me wrong, it's a really cool series and all, but...it's not Hurley Haywood in a Porsche or Peter Gregg or Nissan GTPs, or Audi R8s.
Oh, and thye have the vintage weekend. (though thats been given to a much more open group that is hungry for cars).

Has Lime Rock lost it's relevance??

I think Skip was/is charging too much for track rental, He pissed off Nascar K&N Series..then Modifieds and it went from there. I know theres some good people in the office trying to change things. Probably the same reason why Majors/Nationals haven't been in a few years.

yes, Skip thinks his track is pretty dear, and charges more than the going rate. Which for clubs is elastic, and lacking local competition, it can work.

But more tracks are coming on line, and for Pro series entrants, Lime Rock is a major PITA. Total lack of nearby and reasonable cost accommodations, difficult to get to, limited hours of operation, (NO SUNDAYS!) and...a major issue: it's too damn short. (And paddocking and pit lanes are issues as well)

Result? I think that with the behind the scenes shenanigans that Skip may or may not be pulling money-wise, the other factors...especially the ready supply of other options that are as, or are more viable, has put some nails in the Lime Rock coffin, as far as spectator events goes.

Which is a pity.

They're supposed to be dumping quite a few $$ into it, i heard rumors of paving all of B-Paddock....which is great as long as they put a bunch of good bathrooms in the place. This year seems to be a loss for good spectator events but i'm still optimistic for "15." But i agree, with so many good tracks on the east coast, the lack of hospitality near by and no Sunday racing they are in a tight spot. They did well for a long time....time to get back to basics...or charge less.

The pit entrance not being completed when hoped for is what killed LRP for '14. Yes, it sucks but I don't think it's doom and gloom, at least yet.

The whole BMW sponsorship will also be interesting. Or maybe they're able to hook a new sponsor? That would be my guess then back on track for '15.

Well..Skip seems to think that the Cub at Lime Rock is the way to go. And dog and pony shows like the drifting last summer on the autocross circuit. Went up there during lunch from the poorly attended Mohud down grade to Regional in July. Tons of cars and spectators.

As things change they sometimes have a negative effect on great things from the past.

It's really not about what Skip Barber has done, it's all about the state of sports car racing today,
And the merger of GA and ALMS. There have been too many 'Pro' events since the split and
the decline of sports car racing. So there was no room for LRP in the combined '14 sched.

Let's hope sports cars come back and Lime Rock returns to the calendar, no better place to be
at the races on a sunny afternoon.
LD71 :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BruceG

Well..Skip seems to think that the Cub at Lime Rock is the way to go. And dog and pony shows like the drifting last summer on the autocross circuit. Went up there during lunch from the poorly attended Mohud down grade to Regional in July. Tons of cars and spectators.

---

Sounds like you think the above is bad, and not to be allowed or hosted. Why SHOULDN'T LRP embrace and host such events???

Last Fall in September during the Rolex...I was helping my buddy with the flat bed. Lime Rock also has several tow trucks.

Memo Rojas in the Ganassi DP spun off between one and 2. Kind of wondered why he went off where he did(thought cold tires), Turns out it was the 3rd engine failure for their Dinan BMW V8 int 3 weeks.

Anyway.......powers to be decided to bring Rojas in thru the gate into the A paddock,drivers right between one and 2. They started towing him in.The problem is that management has never had that access road paved!! I ran out to stop the tow truck, as gravel and shit were piling up against the front spoiler,spliters,etc. We released the tow hook, pushed him back on to the track and had him towed all the way round the track to pit in and the Posey straight.

Needless to say, Memo Rojas was not a happy camper!! FOR LACK OF A SHORT SECTION OF PAVEMENT,LRP MANAGED TO PISS OFF AY LEAST ONE MAJOR PLAYER. Perhaps lack of money spent on facilities has pissed off some of the big boys against racing at LRP.

The sad thing is that the crowds in the past couple of years at LRP for pro events have been fantastic!!

Yes, true, even with HIGH gate prices, they've had good/great turnouts.

LRP has in recent memory, (post new tower and pretty landscaping) been wont to put money into the place just to make it better. Seems like any money put in HAS to have a immediate payback.
The story on the repave is that ALMS signed a multiyear contract based on a real deal repave, and improved safety modifications. To finance that, Skip sold stakes in the "club". THAT required club buildings, so he spruced up some existing structures.

The 'media center' where you could watch the braking area on the 'roof? Thats been left to decay. Things like drainage control in Paddock B? Wouldn't cost THAT much, but....
The swamp outside the Esses? Again, you'd think that would be a easy fix, yet it remained for years. The shortcut Bruce mentioned was put in and was a good idea, but, nobody thought that it's a RACETRACK, and race cars are low and need pavement.

The showers? horrible. And c'mon, fixing those could be done for short money. Same with the bathrooms.

It's a BEAUTIFUL place. It's quite special in that regard. But they demand top dollar to visit. When I go to a Bridgeport Bluefish AAA baseball game, the seating is better, the beer courts are awesome, the bathrooms are nicer and cleaner, and the experience is pretty darn good. And the ticket is $11. At LRP, it's porta pottys and piss toughs for 6 times that. (I know, apples to oranges, but...)

Things like that are bitched about by the teams and the sanctioning bodies. LRP has a lot going against it in terms of a tough to get to location and a lack of accommodations, (difficult to change those) so you'd think they'd go out of their way to make sure they did everything possible to eliminate other team gripes.

To rent Lime Rock for one of the few unmuffled Friday-Saturday weekends is $57,000. That just gets you in. Add the required overhead, insurance and what-not for a SCCA Club Racing event, and the minimum gross needs to be around $75,000 just to break even on rental and expenses. Assuming even a miracle count of 200 cars, that means an entry fee of $375. That many cars aren't going to show up, so now the entry fee is more, but what Regional Racer is going to pay $400 or $425 for the limited track time and so-so facilities Lime Rock offers?

The issues with Pro Racing and the track are of the same vein and likely not going to any better either.

I havent raced at LRP in a few years because its just not a great deal anymore. Soooo many excellent tracks to choose from why go back? Plus i think that the worst wrecks and the most wrecks happen at LRP.

Anybody else think LRP has a higher crash count than other tracks?

I will say as I've gotten older, recognized that I can actually get hurt, don't have the money for big repair bills and have become closer to the limit, LRP makes me a bit nervous. I don't feel that way at the Glen, Summit, or other tracks I attend.

One interesting aspect about the pro events is that it's really not such a huge money maker for LRP. I didn't realize just how much money it takes to get AMLS or whomever there.

Contact impound reports were twice that of other tracks.

But....well run and well planned events drawer drivers :shrug:

I love the track. I love the high speed nature of it and for me it's still the closest "real" track to me. If I lived south of the track I would probably say a lot of the same things all of you are.

Stephen

Oh, i love the place, and I like the changeable nature of the track ...its very weather dependent and actually has microclimates in it's short length. The whole "dangerous" thing is fine, I can deal with more risk in exchange for more character/fun to drive. Like, I'll take LRP over NHIS every time. or over the NJ tracks, which are ok, but meh for the most part. (I like the club track better then the pro actually)
But, it's less relevant for Pro teams these days, and thats too bad. And i think, to some degree, avoidable.
I wonder if that will hurt Skips ability to sign people up to the "club"? Part of the draw is the pro events that happen there, and the fact that the track is host to history. Maybe not..Monticello seems to be doing fine, and McNish has never let an R8 loose there in a battle with anyone.

Never been a huge fan of driving the track, but I've always loved the area and spectating. It's always been more of a vacation than a race weekend for me. I'll still try to go once a year just for that fact.

I love the track more than most, but it's so expensive. I'm not even a stickler about the facilities but when you compare LRP's ticket prices and entry fees to that of other tracks, it seems just ludicrous. I didn't even run there last season. I just instructed a lot instead.

As one who cut my racing teeth at Lime Rock (first event as a SCCA worker - timing and scoring since I was only 20 and could not Flag until 21, that was back in 1966), I am saddened at the state of affairs at LRP, and hope that things improve and the place survives. Still hoping to get out there and race before I get too old, or it gets way too expensive, or ............

Bill..in 1966 SCCA was in full bloom with hugh fields, TRANSAM and CANAM.......major pro events with extremely closely matched cars..and cheap gasoline. Talent pool was hugh.......some real drivers of character racing(meant only in that guys like Parneli Jones and George Follmer really added some spice to the mix).. 3 more really good tracks for NER. The old Bryar Motorsports park(Loudon), The old Thompson road course......and Bridgehanpton,

Fast forward...sigh

Ahhhh,....Bridgehampton.
There will never be another so great again. Times change, things become more "civilized" and "safe".
And something is forever lost, a considerable thing that many will never know.

Bridgehampton.... I remember watching you run either Matilda or her predecessor there with EMRA. Wish I could have run the place now instead of as the hack I was as a newbie. VIR is the closest thing I've found to it.

My dad raced at Bridgehampton and said it was his favorite track. I attended, but was too young to remember. I wish it was still there so I could experience it.

If the pictures on Bing maps are up to date it appears that the main straight, infield bridge and downhill, are still in place and are acually used for the entrance to the golf club.

I only drove it a few times but was never able to go under the bridge without lifting. I had a 67 Rambler American with about 400 hp that was doing about 144 mph at the bridge. That was the fastest I have gone in a vehicle.

Great track

Nat Wentworth
Volvo 142 ITB

I've visited the site on Google Earth several times.
It's ominous how so much of the layout etched in my mind is still visible.
Bridgehampton was where it all started for me. It was a Camelot in asphalt.
A very special place, in fact and in memory, almost like a ritual space to me.
I never had the same experience of being fully present at any of the other great tracks I've driven like I had at the Bridge. Driving Bridgehamton fast was like reaching some higher level of consciousness, at least for me it was.
God, I'm getting old!

This was just posted recently... Yesterday at 4:17pm

Skip Barber... Mythbuster!

Skip Barber is at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit. Yesterday, he ran into a colleague who is close to but not in the racing business. He asked Skip, “Hey, so what’s Lime Rock doing since it doesn’t have any races this year?”

All Skip could do was muster a bemused smile... perplexed how even knowledgeable people can harbor misconceptions of that sort.

So Skip thought now would be a good time for Lime Rock Park to bust a few myths.

Herewith...

Myth: “Lime Rock Park doesn’t have any races this year.”
Actual: The net result for Lime Rock of the merger of Grand-Am and ALMS is that we went from hosting five major events to three, and those three – IMSA Continental Tire Sports Cars/Porsche GT3 Cup, Historic Festival 32 , and the Trans-Am Season Finale – are big-field, exciting, solid race weekends, all with excellent support races. As usual, there are also the two SCCA races, including the NARRCS, a Lime Rock staple for more than 50 years.

Myth: “If a racing or driving club doesn’t schedule dates with Lime Rock in 2014, it has no hope of getting a date in the future.”
Actual: Absolutely not true. Every winter, Lime Rock fields hundreds of calls and emails from parties interested in renting the track, skid pad, autocross and the chalets, and we’ve been pretty successful at accommodating most everyone, whether they are first-timers or long-time regulars. If an organization isn’t able to find workable dates or simply doesn’t have an interest in a 2014 event, we’ll figure out dates for them for 2015 and beyond. (Note to club organizers: If you have specific questions regarding traditional dates, corner workers, etc., please email Lime Rock’s Georgia Blades at [email protected].)

Myth: “Lime Rock closes in November and re-opens in April.”
Actual: Nope. Lime Rock rents the autocross and hospitality chalets all year round, and even the 1.5-mile track is rentable under certain conditions. Not to mention that the Scheduling, Marketing, Accounting, Operations and Catering Departments are extremely busy preparing for the next season.

Myth: “Skip Barber wants to sell the track.”
Actual: He’s not sure if he’s undecided (lol), but Skip’s current plan is not to live forever. And one day in the future, yes, he would like to sell the track. And yes, to someone who can ensure Lime Rock’s future. Please, no more golf course inquiries, ok? Skip is the ultimate caretaker of Lime Rock and will one day leave it to someone to do the same. Until then, the track remains in his hands.*

Myth: “Lime Rock has no cell- or smart-phone coverage.”
Actual: Not true. There is a 3G AT&T cell tower (4G by April) between the two infield chalets, and last month Verizon activated a brand new 4G tower two miles up Route 7. We hear there is a good chance other carriers will rent space on the Verizon tower, too.

The bottom line is that Lime Rock Park is well-staged for a successful 2014 and beyond. Skip Barber has not lessened his ongoing commitment to continually improve both the fan and driver/competitor/team experience at Lime Rock Park. Go to limerock.com for the latest information, and we encourage your feedback by writing to us via [email protected].

Yea, I read that. And it made me wonder if: I'm not alone in my comments, or B, somebody sent him this link.

But it doesn't alter my thoughts about the Professional relevance of the track. Sure a club can rent it. Heck, I bet more dates will open in 2015 as more tacks come on line. Skips just ignoring supply and demand there. Heck, he might have to LOWER the fee if he's not filling the place up....

And sorry, but calling those pro dates they have for 14 "big field exciting solid race weekends" is debatable. Conti is that. The others? To the average race fan, they lack relevance. Sorry, but LRP has ONE weekend this year (and it's shortened at that!) that is a desirable show.

But glad to see he's hyping the NARRCOFFS! Maybe NYR can get a break on the rental fee?? ;)

Interesting email blast today from Skip looking for feedback. The questions certainly point to the fact that they "get it". However, it takes money... Time will tell...

can you post it? I didn't get a copy. Or is he looking for just specific feedback from a select list.

Stephen

Here is the copy paste

Skip Barber... Mythbuster!Skip Barber is at the North American International*Auto Show in Detroit. Yesterday, he ran into a colleague who is close to but not in the racing business. He asked Skip, “Hey, so what’s Lime Rock doing since it doesn’t have any races this year?”All Skip could do was muster a bemused smile... perplexed how even knowledgeable people can harbor misconceptions of that sort.So Skip thought now would be a good time for Lime Rock Park to bust a few myths.Herewith...

Myth:*“Lime Rock Park doesn’t have any races this year.”
Actual:*The net result for Lime Rock of the merger of Grand-Am and ALMS is that we went from hosting five major events to three, and those three – IMSA Continental Tire Sports Cars/Porsche GT3 Cup, Historic Festival 32 , and the Trans-Am Season Finale – are big-field, exciting, solid race weekends, all with excellent support races. As usual, there are also the two SCCA races, including the NARRCS, a Lime Rock staple for more than 50 years.

Myth:*“If a racing or driving club doesn’t schedule dates with Lime Rock in 2014, it has no hope of getting a date in the future.”
Actual:*Absolutely not true. Every winter, Lime Rock fields hundreds of calls and emails from parties interested in renting the track, skid pad, autocross and the chalets, and we’ve been pretty successful at accommodating most everyone, whether they are first-timers or long-time regulars. If an organization isn’t able to find workable dates or simply doesn’t have an interest in a 2014 event, we’ll figure out dates for them for 2015 and beyond. (Note to club organizers: If you have specific questions regarding traditional dates, corner workers, etc., please email Lime Rock’s Georgia Blades at*[email protected].)

Myth:*“Lime Rock closes in November and re-opens in April.”
Actual:*Nope. Lime Rock rents the autocross and hospitality chalets all year round, and even the 1.5-mile track is rentable under certain conditions. Not to mention that the Scheduling, Marketing, Accounting, Operations and Catering Departments are extremely busy preparing for the next season.

Myth:*“Skip Barber wants to sell the track.”
Actual:*He’s not sure if he’s undecided (lol), but Skip’s current plan is not to live forever. And one day in the future, yes, he would like to sell the track. And yes, to someone who can ensure Lime Rock’s future. Please, no more golf course inquiries, ok? Skip is the ultimate caretaker of Lime Rock and will one day leave it to someone to do the same. Until then, the track remains in his hands.*

Myth:*“Lime Rock has no cell- or smart-phone coverage.”
Actual:*Not true. There is a 3G AT&T cell tower (4G by April) between the two infield chalets, and last month Verizon activated a brand new 4G tower two miles up Route 7. We hear there is a good chance other carriers will rent space on the Verizon tower, too.

The bottom line is that Lime Rock Park is well-staged for a successful 2014 and beyond. Skip Barber has not lessened his ongoing commitment to continually improve both the fan and driver/competitor/team experience at Lime Rock Park. Go tolimerock.com*for the latest information, and we encourage your feedback by writing to us via*[email protected] you soon!Skip Barber, and all of us at Lime Rock Park860.435.5000

jeremy is that the email you speak of? Thats the one I got. Didn't seem like he's looking for ANY feedback on that one...

No seperate email...

Here is the survey link ---> http://fs20.formsite.com/LimeRockDri...?1390253124538

Here is the email




The “20-20-20” Fan Survey Mega-Drawing
20 questions. 20 prizes. $20 grand!

We have questions and you have the answers.

In Lime Rock Park’s ongoing quest to make your experience here as good as it can be, we are probing your minds.

Using a survey of 20 questions.

(Of course, you don't have to buy anything to take the survey and maybe win a prize. The only thing this is going to cost you is 5 minutes of your time. Thank you.)

To bribe you into completing the survey, we put the arm on some of Lime Rock Park’s sponsors and partners to donate big, valuable, super-cool prizes.

When we add up the values of all those prizes, it reaches more than $20,000.

Woof, right?

And here’s the best part...

On the survey, you choose to be entered into the drawings for each of three of the 20 prizes.

That’s right, three. Which means your odds of winning are likely to be increased for each different prize!

For example, if one of your choices is a “Lime Rock Tree in Your Name,” you’re only “competing” against the other survey responders who also chose “Tree.”

Anyway, please accept our bribe... which are chances to win valuable prizes by completing the survey.

You can go to the survey site by clicking here, or by clicking on the jpg image at the top of this email.

Detailed descriptions of each prize can be found below.

Have fun, and good luck!
The Marketing Department at Lime Rock Park

Note: No prizes can be exchanged for any cash value. What you win is what you win!
Total Value of all prizes: $20,655
Survey ends midnight Eastern Time Friday, January 31, 2014
Winners drawn and announced Valentine’s Day, Friday, February 14, 2014
Survey respondents pick 3 prizes that they would like to be entered into a drawing for; you get 3 chances to win a prize.
"20-20-20" drawing rules are at www.limerock.com; click here for rules
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“20-20-20 Survey” Prize Descriptions

Dinner for Two with Skip Barber at the Falls Village Inn, value... Priceless!
We’re not sure how you put a value on an evening out with a legend, but we guaranty a fun, enlightening and very enjoyable time, at a renowned local restaurant and lounge

Three-Day Skip Barber Racing School at Lime Rock, value $4,500
Choose between the formula race car school or the Mazda MX-5 Miata race car school

Two-Day Skip Barber High Performance Driving School at Lime Rock, value $3,300
You’ll be driving high performance sports cars such as Porsches and Lexus’s, including some track time

One-Day Skip Barber Racing School at Lime Rock at Lime Rock, value $1,900
Fundamentals of racing, driving both the formula and Mazda Miata race cars

One-Day Skip Barber High Performance Driving School at Lime Rock, value $1,900
You’ll be driving high performance street cars such as Porsches and Lexus’s, including some track time

Strategy Graphics, LLC., Wall or Vehicle Graphics Package; Design, Materials & Installation, value $1,500
Strategy Graphics is the Millerton, N.Y., company that does all the zoomy Lime Rock Pace Car graphics and most of the signage you see all around the facility. Strategy can design and install a package for your car, trailer, truck or even a wall in your den or garage.

Five Lime Rock “Open-Autocross Days,” value $1,125
The extremely popular Lime Rock “Open-Enrollment Autocross Days” are when you bring your own car and then have a ton of fun driving it as fast as you can, in a fun, very safe environment (our Infield Autocross course, which is a mini-racetrack). The days cost $225 and this prize is for five of them (space available).

Lime Rock “55 TREES” Tree, value, $1,000
Three years ago we initiated the “55 Trees: Planting or the Future” program. For $1,000, you choose a tree species from our arborist’s list, we plant it in the best location at Lime Rock for that kind of tree, and the tree ends up with a permanent plaque of dedication to whomever or whatever you name. How cool is that?

10-pack of Weekend Tickets, Historic Festival 32, Labor Day weekend, August 28 – September 1, value $1,000
Lime Rock’s biggest, most diverse automotive and racing weekend! 300 race cars, 40 races, 250 Sunday in the Park Concours cars, 700 collectible cars, Swap Meet, Race Car Parade – HF32 has it all. Grab a whole bunch of your family and friends for the best vintage racing weekend east of the Mississippi!

Four-Pack 2014 Lime Rock Season Passes, value $920
Gets you into every day of every race weekend, with Infield parking, on Lime Rock’s 2014 calendar: IMSA, Historic Festival, Trans-Am, plus two SCCA race weekends. Don’t bother with tickets – just have your family flash your Season Pass badges!

American Express Cash Gift Cards thanks to Clear Channel Media, $600
Clear Channel Media – our very hooked-up music, radio and internet partner – has $600 worth of American Express Gift Cards. Use ‘em any way you want...

Two-Pack 2014 Lime Rock Season Passes, value $460
Gets you into every day of every race weekend, with Infield parking, on Lime Rock’s 2014 calendar: IMSA, Historic Festival, Trans-Am, plus two SCCA race weekends. Don’t bother with tickets – just flash your Season Pass badges!

10-Pack of Weekend Tickets, IMSA Races & Sunday Royals Car Show, Memorial Day weekend, May 23 – 25, value $450
The IMSA “Conti Tire” Challenge – some of the best stock car road racing in the world – is two big classes, Grand Sport (GS) and Street Tuner (ST). Plus, the U.S. version of the popular Euro Porsche GT3 Cup series! Capping the weekend: Sunday Royals Car Show, which draws 200-400 prime vehicles of every kind – from rare sports cars and contemporary supercars to hundreds of muscle cars from the 60s and 70s – and benefits local charities. Bring all your friends for a rollicking good time!

Two-Pack Mohegan Sun Fan Hospitality, Historic Festival 32, value $300
The best way to experience a race day at Lime Rock is the VIP experience! Great food and drink, Infield parking, and a big, comfortable hospitality tent convenient to every part of the track.

Lime Rock Store Merchandise Gift Certificate, value $300
For 2014, we have new designs, new items... lots of new!

10-pack of Weekend Tickets, Trans-Am, value $300
America’s fastest, most powerful production-bodied sports cars are in the Trans-Am Series. Harkening back to its origins, Trans-Am is the playground for the “pony cars” – Chevy Camaros and Ford Mustangs with stock-block engines making more than 800 h.p., wrapped in tubeframe race chassis wearing iconic bodywork. A Trans-Am race is 100 frantic miles of wheel to wheel, nose to tail, hardcore American-style racing. Bring all your friends for a crazy-good time!

Two-Pack Mohegan Sun Fan Hospitality, IMSA races, value $250
The best way to experience a race day at Lime Rock is the VIP experience! Great food and drink, Infield parking, and a big, comfortable hospitality tent convenient to every part of the track.

Two-Pack Mohegan Sun Fan Hospitality, Trans-Am, value $250
The best way to experience a race day at Lime Rock is the VIP experience! Great food and drink, Infield parking, and a big, comfortable hospitality tent convenient to every part of the track.

Lime Rock Store Merchandise Gift Certificate, value $200
For 2014, we have new designs, new items... lots of new!

Lime Rock Store Merchandise Gift Certificate, value $100
For 2014, we have new designs, new items... lots off

Got it. The questions at the end...."which would you like to win?" Really? Somebody would PREFER to win less tickets than more? A CHEAPER SKippy class? LOL. ANd I hope Skips feelings aren't hurt that he's not going to get a landslide of votes over a 3 day Skippy Competition Course!

So....how would you sell a track that you have already sold bits and pieces of? Aren't the Lime Rock Club people deeded owners? I thought they had a timeshare style ownership?
That will add some red tape, won't it?
Or was it done differently?

Jake, some people may have the attitude that everyone else is going to be selecting the big prize and feel their odds are much better at some of the smaller ones. Bet they are too. Yet I really don't care about credits to the LRP store or some of the other items.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StephF

So....how would you sell a track that you have already sold bits and pieces of? Aren't the Lime Rock Club people deeded owners?

---

As I understand it, it was not arranged as a partnership, rather than as a membership org similar to a golf club. If that's correct, then it's still owned 100% by Skip Barber or the LLC/Corp he formed to own it.

Greg

That is correct Greg.