Driving Experience At Last Chance Weekend WGI

Want to experience what it is like to be Wheel to Wheel racing in a controlled environment with NO RACING LICENSE REQUIRED?!?! Is this even possible? Yes it is!!!

The Glen Region SCCA would like to invite you to our inaugural Last Chance: Club Racing Experience event on Friday October 3rd, 2013 at Watkins Glen International.

What is the SCCA Racing Experience?

This event will be a low risk “racing experience” event that provides an instructional environment to experience and learn about wheel to wheel racing in an easy to access format. The event will happen during the Glen Region’s Last Chance weekend. :eclipsee_steering:

Tom, is there no sanctioned school this year, or is this in addition to the school/race weekend?

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Originally Posted by Drew M

Tom, is there no sanctioned school this year, or is this in addition to the school/race weekend?

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Drew there will be drivers school for closed wheel cars. For additional info contact Ed Zebrowski at edzeb at juno . com

Just wish that we had some advertising for this. How can we get any newbs with a few notes on some obscure forums?
Please step it up SCCA.

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Originally Posted by tdw6974

Drew there will be drivers school for closed wheel cars. For additional info contact Ed Zebroski at edzeb at juno . com

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Thank you, sir!

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Originally Posted by tdw6974

Want to experience what it is like to be Wheel to Wheel racing in a controlled environment with NO RACING LICENSE REQUIRED?!?! Is this even possible? Yes it is!!!

The Glen Region SCCA would like to invite you to our inaugural Last Chance: Club Racing Experience event on Friday October 3rd, 2013 at Watkins Glen International.

What is the SCCA Racing Experience?

This event will be a low risk “racing experience” event that provides an instructional environment to experience and learn about wheel to wheel racing in an easy to access format. The event will happen during the Glen Region’s Last Chance weekend. :eclipsee_steering:

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I like it... But I don't get it!! is it for street cars or race cars? is it riding or driving? What about cost and schedule? Lots of unexplained things in your post and no link for more info!

This is certainly the direction we (SCCA) needs to take in its marketing though! Way to go on catching attention!!!

Raymond "can you give more details on this... We have crew coming with us to the Enduro that might like it!" Blethen

This got me thinking... how cool would it be too have club racing with a passenger similar to co drivers in rally. I know I would pay to ride with a few p people... :)

Stephen

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Originally Posted by StephenB

This got me thinking... how cool would it be too have club racing with a passenger similar to co drivers in rally. I know I would pay to ride with a few p people... :)

Stephen

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I'm sure risk management would be onboard :D

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Originally Posted by StephenB

This got me thinking... how cool would it be too have club racing with a passenger similar to co drivers in rally. I know I would pay to ride with a few p people... :)

Stephen

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For some reason, I see the racing being a lot dirtier if passengers were involved. :happy204:

Haha, I still think co drivers in club racing is as safe or safer than in rally, much safer "barriers" in club racing!

But yea I get why this will never happen.. it is different than the norm ;)


So back on topic, what are the details on this? I do have some crew guys that may rely be interested in doing this with my car.

I will try to add some more info. I talked with Ed the other day. The concept, not completed yet, is that Thursday night (or Friday morning) there will be a class like the normal driver's school. Friday morning (regardless) the practice session, driver's school and race experience will alternate sessions. The driver's school and race experience drivers will alternate in the classroom throughout the day. There will be, by the end of the day, a "grid" and race start. There will not be any posted times, and the grid may be arbitrary.
The driver does not need to have on track experience. The car does not need to be fully to the GCR (belts can be expired). The driver does not need a HANS. The driver needs all of the other things in the GCR however (like if the suit is a single layer, they need to have the nomex underwear).
Things that I don't know: when the supps will be ready. When the schedule I suggested above will be final. How much will it cost? Whether in-car timing equipment is allowed.

Lastly, my dad is probably going to do this. Anybody have a L or XL drivers suit floating around?

I have the info from Ed. If I get a link to the data or permission to post it, I will add a page on my site.

RE racing with passengers is a hoot! Ask Walsh about" My student can kick your students ass"
Later. MM

http://www.ogren-engineering.com/clu...x-by-scca.html

All the data..
I am not sure if the CRX counts as a race school or novice book time. .. as they run separate groups. Look interesting tho and may lead to more new faces.

How to spread the word? Later, MM

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I'm sorry, I just don't get it :shrug:

How is this different than letting a bunch of 15 year olds loose on the roads without
bothering to get a license, as long as they "pinkie promise" not to crash?
And since we believe your promise 100%, you won't need that pesky safety equipment (HNR)
that we require of everyone else that has (or is trying to get) a license.

OTOH, they will be going into classroom various times, and presumably some of the
ontrack sessions will have no passing laps and carefully controlled passing laps, and
be carefully monitored, before they get a gridded start ... so how is this even
different than the driving school?

I guess since they don't have to get a physical beforehand, and don't have to wear a
Hans device, and can have 6 year old expired belts (which the sanctioning bodies have
told us have the structural integrity of tissue paper) they can do the same things
as the students in the next room, but not get credit for it towards a license?

So....if they are willing to expose themselves to conditions with less safety equipment
(and the doctor's blessing) than we require from everyone else, we are then willing to
allow them to increase our organizational risk of litigation, even though we know that
they have no on track experience?..I can just see the guy in the black robe now, asking:

"so Mr Defendant, what you are telling me is that you knew the Plaintiff had no experience,
and you know that beginners in your sport have more incidents than experienced racers?"

"Yes, your Honor..."

"And your analysis of the risks involved have resulted in the requirements of a medical
professional signed physical exam, a Head and Neck Restraint, and a Safety Harness
certified to be within its useful life, for all of the other participants in your events?"

"Yes, your Honor..."

"But you decided to allow the Plaintiff, who had no experience, was in your own words more
likely to have an on-track incident, and due to his lack of experience was less able to
understand the risks beforehand, to sign a waiver of these requirements that you impose
upon licensed racers, and carefully inspect to ensure their compliance?

"Yes, your Honor..."

"Now if you can tell us, does your normal racing program have detailed and carefully worded
specifications for roll cages? ... and does your tech staff carefully and methodically inspect
newly presented rollcages to ensure they are compliant to these?

"Yes, your Honor..."

"and yet you decided that the Plaintiff's health and well-being wasn't worth protecting
with the same level of roll cage safety technology? Do you have a (racial/cultural/gender/age)
[circle one] bias against the Plaintiff that we should know about?

"No your Honor, no bias, and we did not exempt them from the roll cage rules, please look
at the bottom of the form, where we say that the only exceptions are 9.3.19.G and 9.3.20.C:..."

"Perhaps, but in the middle of the form you list the Roll Cage Rules under the exceptions clause:
All vehicles must meet the safety and equipment requirements of GCR 9.3.except:
so therefore, it it correct to say that it is ambiguous whether the roll cage rules apply or are excepted?"

"Yes, your Honor..."

If anyone can better explain the concept for me, I'd certainly appreciate it.

.

Easy Glenn,
This is a pilot program and I am grateful for the folks at the Glen for stepping up and trying this out. We need to run some of these to learn how to do them better and having first class regions and tracks buy in will give us good feedback.
The issue we are trying to address is that many groups, vintage and crap cans and such have a lot less hoops to deal with than at least the perception in SCCA.
The Competition Driving Experience is limited to the lowers third or so of SCCA’s performance envelope. It uses the 13/13 rules in contact and has a chief instructor like a PDX to track and coach competitors. In exchange for those limitations the insurance companies and the risk management people have said we can have easier to comply with standards.
This makes it possible for someone who has a GCR Safe car and personal gear available to self-certify the medical like the FAA does at their lowest level, buy a weekend membership and see what this racing thing is all about. This may be a path to club racing for some or it might be a perfect end destination for others. Either is fine.
Those of us who are at the track all the time may not realize the 50% of all SCCA licensed drivers run two weekends or less a year. How long are those guys willing to go thru all the paperwork to keep current? Maybe if they could run some event where the paperwork was easier even if the racing was more gentlemanly they would be more likely to tie up a bay in their garage with that old race car.

Doing a mock start with this program seems like trouble, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Club Racing Experience,(CRX) By SCCA

Announcing the Glen Region's Last Chance 'Racing Experience'-NO COMP LICENSE NEEDED!!!

This is an all new event, never held at Watkins Glen International before!

Want to experience what it is like to be Wheel to Wheel racing in a controlled environment with NO RACING LICENSE REQUIRED?!?! Is this even possible? Yes it is!!!

The Glen Region SCCA would like to invite you to our inaugural Last Chance: Club Racing Experience event on Friday October 3rd, 2013 at Watkins Glen International.

What is the SCCA Racing Experience?

This event will be a low risk “racing experience” event that provides an instructional environment to experience and learn about wheel to wheel racing in an easy to access format. The event will happen during the Glen Region’s Last Chance weekend.

Participation is open to any SCCA regular or weekend member. Members will be provided with a SCCA Racing Experience Participation Log to record their participation in the event. Participants must certify they have no known medical conditions that would cause them or others undue risk.

Vehicles are intended to be production based vehicles with a performance level equal or less than normal in Club Racing classes Spec Miata or Improved Touring A. Spec Racer Fords may also be included. Vehicles that may be of a performance higher that those listed above will need to be approved by the Chief Steward before the event (Please contact Ed Zebrowski if your vehicle is of a higher level of performance). Vehicles need not have a SCCA Log Book.

Let your crew, family and friends experience what you do behind the wheel. This is where you can do all of the above in a controlled environment and see what wheel to wheel action is like on track. Do stay tuned for more information and details! Or feel free to contact Ed Zebrowski, [email protected]

Want to experience what it is like to be Wheel to Wheel racing in a controlled environment with NO RACING LICENSE REQUIRED?!?! Is this even possible? Yes it is!!!

The Glen Region SCCA would like to invite you to our inaugural Last Chance: Club Racing Experience event on Friday October 3rd, 2013 at Watkins Glen International.

SCCA Racing Experience:

This event will be a low risk “racing experience” event that provides an instructional environment to experience and learn about wheel to wheel racing in an easy to access format. The event will happen during the Glen Region’s Last Chance weekend.

Participation is open to any SCCA regular or weekend member. Members will be provided with a SCCA Racing Experience Participation Log to record their participation in the event. Participants must certify they have no known medical conditions that would cause them or others undue risk.

Vehicles are intended to be production based vehicles with a performance level equal or less than normal in Club Racing classes Spec Miata or Improved Touring A. Spec Racer Fords may also be included. Vehicles that may be of a performance higher that those listed above will need to be approved by the Chief Steward before the event (Please contact Ed Zebrowski if your vehicle is of a higher level of performance). Vehicles need not have a SCCA Log Book.

All vehicles must meet the safety and equipment requirements of GCR 9.3.except:

9.3.19 G, All driver restraint systems shall have been certified under one of the following: SFI specification 16.1, 16.5, or FIA specification 8853/98 or 8854/98 and be in good shape with no signs of wear of fading,

And 9.3.20.C the use of a head and neck restraint system that has been certified in accordance with SFI 38.1, FIA 8858-2002 or 88598-2010 is strongly recommended.

All vehicles must meet the safety and equipment requirements of GCR 9.4. “Roll cages for GT and Production based cars” or Appendix I, “2007 Cage Rules”.

The Chief Steward may waive deviations of compliance requirements for a car for an event.

On track behavior will be in the spirit of GCR section 6. Any participant found to be overaggressive or dangerous may be black flagged and counseled by the Chief Instructor or his designee or excluded from the event. At a minimum any participant being found at fault in an accident will be put on probation for a recommended 13 months. Any participant being found at fault in an accident while on probation will be excluded for further participation in these events for 13 months.

Club Racing Experience - Appendix A:

By signing this Appendix, the driver herby agrees and affirms the following:

This event will include on-track sessions under the new racing experience pilot program, CRX (Club Racing Experience), and will be run under the guidelines published by the SCCA Board of Directors in the January 2013 Fastrack. The intent of the program is to provide a Club Racing Experience to novice drivers in a safe and monitored environment. Drivers wanting to enter this program will be expected to read and sign this Appendix. When the signed Appendix is presented to the Chief Steward, a Driver Log Book will be issued for the driver and maintained by the Chief Steward. The Driver Log Book will be used to record driver on-track performance and will be presented to the driver at the end of the event. The Chairman, Stewards of the Meet, will collect the signed copies of Appendix A and include them with the Observers' report.

The Chief Steward for the Club Racing Experience sessionsin cooperation with the Region’s representative, may modify the Schedule of Events, race group configurations and/or details related to this race group only. This program will be exempt from the usual Protest Process in place at SCCA Road Racing events.

Drivers in this program will be expected to follow the rules as specified in Chapter 6 of the General Competition Rules (Racing Rules and Procedures) while participating in the event.These rules will be covered by the Chief Steward and the Chief Instructor. Technical inspection will be limited to just those items specifically addressed here.

Participation is open to any SCCA regular or weekend member. Participants by signature of this Appendix certify they have no known medical conditions that would cause them or others undue risk.

Vehicles are intended to be production-based vehicles with a performance level equal to, or less than, Club Racing classes Spec Miata or Improved Touring A. Spec Racer Fords may also be included. Any vehicle that demonstrates a performance level higher than Spec Miata or Improved Touring A may be excluded by the Chief Steward of the event.

Driver Conduct:

As a driver participating in the Club Racing Experience, your conduct is expected to be of the highest standard for the protection of everyone involved. Drivers will be observed and judged for safe driving by the Chief Steward, Chief Instructor, Race Chairman, course officials and peers.

• Any driver driving in a careless, unsafe or erratic manner will receive a Black Flag and must immediately report to the Hot Pit Area for a conference with the Chief Steward (or Chief Instructor). Unsafe driving includes, but is not limited to: off course excursions (including 2 or 4wheels off course), spins, and passing in corners.

• 
  
  • If a second Black Flag is shown, the driver will report to the Hot Pit for another conference with the Chief Steward and then return to the paddock for the remainder of the scheduled track session.
  • A third Black Flag shown to the driver will cause the driver to return to the Paddock Area and be excused from the remainder of the weekend.
• Any car contact with another car or other object:
  
  • The responsible driver will be excused for the remainder of the event weekend and may be subject to further review or additional penalties.
  • When the two drivers cannot agree on who is the responsible party, both drivers may be excused for the remainder of the weekend.
• Passing:
  
  • In a passing situation, the overtaking driver has the responsibility for making a safe pass, but this does not relieve the overtaken driver from any responsibility.
  • Both drivers must be alert(i.e. constantly checking your forward field of vision and your mirrors) and observant of what is occurring around them at all times.
  • Always provide racing room in passing conditions.
  • Whenever possible, slower drivers should point faster drivers around them.
• The Chief Steward has the final word.

Safety, Technical Inspection: To Be continued on next post!!!

Part 2 of 2

Safety, Technical Inspection:

All vehicles must meet the safety and equipment requirements of GCR 9.3. EXCEPT 9.3.19.G and 9.3.20.C:

9.3.19 G, All driver restraint systems shall have been certified under one of the following: SFI specification 16.1, 16.5, or FIA specification 8853/98 or 8854/98 and be in good shape with no signs of wear of fading,

And 9.3.20.C the use of a head and neck restraint system that has been certified in accordance with SFI 38.1, FIA 8858-2002 or 88598-2010 is strongly recommended.

All vehicles must meet the safety and equipment requirements of GCR 9.4. “Roll cages for GT and Production based cars” or Appendix I, “2007 Cage Rules”.

The Chief Steward may waive deviations of compliance requirements for a car for an event.

I have read and understand the terms and conditions of Appendix A and request to be included in the Club Racing Experience.

Driver (signature): ______________________________________________

Driver (printed): ______________________________________________

Member Number: ______________________

Date: ______________________

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• Crap-Can-Am
• Club Racing Experience,(CRX) By SCCA

Thanks for the full post Tom, but I did read all the rules before my rant.

Thanks for the background explanation Dick.

Here are the points I am hung up on:

The wording error in the CRX must be fixed. In the first half it says the roll cage rules are EXCEPTED
(read it again yourself), and at the very end it says they are NOT EXCEPTED.

If this is as controlled as a normal racing school, I don't see enough difference between them...
why not just waive the same safety requirements for the school participants if you think that is
a primary barrier to new blood entry?

If you deem these three safety items (physical, HNR, belt age) to be waiveable for new participants,
then why not reduce the requirement on these three items for everyone? Having two levels of safety
has two consequences:

1. The new participant needs to "go through the hoops" eventually anyway
   .
2. It opens the club to the risk of lawsuits based solely on "If the safety rules are necessary
   for everyone else, then why weren't they necessary for my injured client"

I am all for eliminating the harness date expiration for everyone, allowing us all to self-certify
medical, and allowing people to go back to their ISAACS or forgo an HNR if they want.

.

I would never have become a racer without EMRA.
EMRA's bar was a lot lower and they welcomed me to race my street car (AH Sprite)
After cutting my teeth with EMRA, I looked around and realized that the upgrades to SCCA weren't going to be so hard.
But without that middle step, I don't think I would have had the wherewithal
to do it at that point in my life (24 years old/low income)

I did EMRA events too. Another aspect that I liked was the $$$$ competitors were spending weren't as crazy. Maybe that was a direct result of being easier to begin racing with them. Didn't even think about that until you mentioned it Phil.

Glenn this is more controlled than a Club racing driver’s school in that like vintage it operates under the 13/13 concept. One at fault incident and you have a 13 month probation, a second one and you are suspended from this form of event for 13 months. This is designed to foster a less aggressive environment.


If these events become more common in the future then it will give someone an outlet for wheel to wheel competition without ever having to deal with the hassle of the additional requirements. If instead they decide they want to get it to it harder they can move along to traditional club racing. Either way it is all good.
As to the risk, if the risk professionals are satisfied with the program why second guess them.


As to the belts and medicals, who knows if this is successful maybe some of it could trickle up.

Fair enough.

ok, I'll stop trying to be an armchair risk lawyer. :)

I didn't realize someone could continue to CRX. I thought it was only an intro day.

Trickle up would be good

Why is the price for this not in the first line in the first post, in bold? Why does one have to sort through supps to figure out price, which for many is the A#1 barrier to entry? If this isn't cheap, like $250 max, it's completely ineffective. Sorry if this sounds rant-ish, but even with being in the club for a while the information dissemination part varies so much region to region it's hard as hell for me to figure out fundamental stuff like event cost.

Could be that the price is not fixed yet. IDK. You are right tho.
This appears to be a very young concept and not fully fixed in stone. As it should be IMHO.

Another chance to improve the driver skill at this point also is for two seats for instructor rides. The standard driver school lacks the instructor input . Watching from the track side is good but not nearly the same. I get many fresh NP holders that we need to ride with to get near a decent line even tho they have the 6 hrs or so of track time.
Maybe mix in some good racers to monitor/film, and with cars marked, " Follow Me" or "follow me DA". FMDA :)

I would think that ride alongs would be a huge benefit, just like taking any virgin for track day, it is a lot easier to take 3 laps and show the basics, instead of spending 2 sesssions trying toget near the edge of the track .. " station wagon rides" are close tho.

I really hope to see some advertising in a few motor sports mags, Road and Track has a BA ad for Chumpcar and Chumptruck.

Pick me, pick me.
:),MM

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I really hope to see some advertising in a few motor sports mags, Road and Track has a BA ad for Chumpcar and Chumptruck.

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How do you advertise in national publications when it's for a single specific date and region? Hope to see the PDX and this grow and become supported by many more regions.

There was a PDX at a recent Lime Rock SCCA event which was mixed in. Overall I thought that was a great.

Can someone give us a synopsis of this event?
Thanks, MM

tis... NO! geez buddy. I mean first Jeff Lawton wants porn, now Greg Amy wants to spell out all of wikipedia, Ed Funk wants to buy a pair of kinky boots, now YOU want a SYNOPSIS... I think everyone is asking WAY TOO MUCH of improvedtouring.com. :)

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Originally Posted by mossaidis

tis... NO! geez buddy. I mean first Jeff Lawton wants porn, now Greg Amy wants to spell out all of wikipedia, Ed Funk wants to buy a pair of kinky, now YOU want a SYNOPSIS... I think everyone is asking WAY TOO MUCH of improvedtouring.com. :)

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Wait....what?

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Originally Posted by StephF

Wait....what?

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Add the word "boot" after kinky. Then read this thread.

https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=32138

Lets try again. Did anyone go? Was it a success? Thanks, porn.
If it wernt for porn there would be no net.

[QUOTE=Flyinglizard;350177]Lets try again. Did anyone go? Was it a success? Thanks, Not sure if a success there were 5 entrants And it was rumored they had a good time with no mishaps:eclipsee_steering:

My dad did it and had a really good time. The region used a couple instructors to "plump" the field. The instructors ran away from the students in the race, but that's all part of seat time, seat time, seat time.
I don't know if it was a success, but hopefully the club will use it to learn, whether it's throw the idea out or build on it.

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Originally Posted by kcolbey

My dad did it and had a really good time. The region used a couple instructors to "plump" the field. The instructors ran away from the students in the race, but that's all part of seat time, seat time, seat time.
I don't know if it was a success, but hopefully the club will use it to learn, whether it's throw the idea out or build on it.

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I received the loaner suit back yesterday... glad he could enjoy it!

Can anyone tell me what this "Race Experience" looked like? What it, for all intents and purposes, a "race"? Or was it a glorified PDX session? Was there open passing everywhere on track, even in corners?

I'm trying to gather information for my own Region.

So let me get this straight. The safety requirements were not the same as "regular competitors" needed ? How to dis your regular customers.

This to compete with other orgs that do the same kinda thing. IMHO.
Just trying to ease the on track entry hurdles. It is not for everyone.

The racing experience product is wheel to wheel racing in GCR safety legal cars with performance potential of about an ITA-SM level.
The racing should not be overly aggressive and follows the 13-13 on track rules similar to what is commonly used in vintage racing.
It is an instructional environment like you see at HPD events. There is a chief instructor and drivers meeting and debriefs particularly for novices.
In exchange for some of the above limitations licenses are not required and participant can self-certify they are healthy similar to what the FAA does for their lower level. Also head and neck devices are only recommended.
The SCCA enabling language is in the BOD meeting minutes in fastrack January 2013.
We will be looking to add some more language to give further direction at our meeting in December.
Feel free to pm me for more specific information.

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Originally Posted by forestdweller37

Can anyone tell me what this "Race Experience" looked like? What it, for all intents and purposes, a "race"? Or was it a glorified PDX session? Was there open passing everywhere on track, even in corners?

I'm trying to gather information for my own Region.

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It was a little bit of both. The first session was different point-bys with no passing in the corners. The students through the rest of the day were sometimes points, sometimes not. The instructors when working with students were rarely on points. The last session of the day the , there was a "grid" that was arbitrary as there was no times. After the grid, the field did follow around a pace car and had a race start. PM me or Dick Patullo if you'd like more detail.

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Originally Posted by kcolbey

It was a little bit of both. The first session was different point-bys with no passing in the corners. The students through the rest of the day were sometimes points, sometimes not. The instructors when working with students were rarely on points. The last session of the day the , there was a "grid" that was arbitrary as there was no times. After the grid, the field did follow around a pace car and had a race start. PM me or Dick Patullo if you'd like more detail.

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Thank you. Dick and I have been in contact earlier this year. Looks like it's time for me to resume the dialog.