Brake pads... what are you using :)

As the title says. Post up some of your opinions and suggestions on what your using. I used Carbotech in the past as they had great customer service and custom made pads for our Audi's but now that I am running the RX8 I have a lot of options! I would love to here from some of you...

I have a feeling the Hawk Blues are the most popular but if you are using Hawk pads which ones and why.

Also post up your vehicles weight, brake size, and tire size since I am sure those are all factors to be considered for a newbie reading this later on.

Link to each different racing Hawk pads...
http://www.hawkperformance.com/motorsports/compounds/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StephenB

As the title says. Post up some of your opinions and suggestions on what your using. I used Carbotech in the past as they had great customer service and custom made pads for our Audi's but now that I am running the RX8 I have a lot of options! I would love to here from some of you...

I have a feeling the Hawk Blues are the most popular but if you are using Hawk pads which ones and why.

Also post up your vehicles weight, brake size, and tire size since I am sure those are all factors to be considered for a newbie reading this later on.

Link to each different racing Hawk pads...
http://www.hawkperformance.com/motorsports/compounds/

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I use the Cobalt Pads. They bed in one lap.
Car is a 95 Miata, ITA, 2460lbs. Running the Hoosier SM6.

I like them a lot because I can modulate the brake. In comparison the Hawk Blue had better initial bite, but I was locking up tires in turn 3 in NH with the blues.

Abhi

the Rx7s are so easy on brakes, we get a whole season (12-15 races) out of a set of fronts, two seasons or more for the rears

Hawk Blues in Front, Blacks in rear

I've used-

Hawk Blue- they eat rotors, and the modulation characteristics are not, IMHO, consistent

Hawk HT-10- easy to modulate, good initial bite, but crumbled when only slightly overheated. Good pad and rotor wear other than that. I'd still be running them if they hadn't given up. Note- I believe the crux of the issue was that I ran a set of wheels with poor airflow characteristics for two sessions. Even so, I was concerned about crumbling, so I changed pad compounds.

Raybestos ???- Recommended from Porterfield, and so far they've been great. Very confidence inspiring due to great modulation charateristics and initial bite consistency. Unfortunately, also expensive, but really, how much is confidence in your brakes worth? For me at Summit, about 3/4 second.

All of the above were run on a 2400 lb ITB car.


I will say, Matt Yip was teaching me how to use whatever brakes were in the car in front of me. That, however, may turn this into a crossover thread to the NEDiv Red Book...

The Hawk blues are old tech, but a lot of people still use them. I'd try the DTC-60 or other newer pad from Hawk. Similar to the blue, but better modulation and rotor wear. I ran blues for a long time, but put on some DTC-60s last time. The blues were more on/off so it took some adjustment to not lock up the tires, but the feel seems better. I've only done a couple races on them so still learning them.

Do some googling. There are lots of threads out there comparing different pads.

David

Blues all around, although I can only get 3-4 weekends out of them. The 45min proit races tend to really bake the pads and you have to manage them a bit or they will begin to fade. I usually replace them just past half worn or until the heat cracks the pad surface.

Been meaning to try out other compounds but I'm sticking with what works for now. I have some DTC-60's that have been sitting in a box for three seasons. Perhaps its time to give them a spin.

Weight: 2680
Tires: 225

Stephen
On the Mark 1 and Mark 2 Volkswagen race cars I used Hawk Blues. We had ZERO issues with these pads in ten years of racing with them. Usually we changed brake pads twice a season, whether we needed to or not. Even our 12 and 24 hour endurance ITC Rabbit used the Hawk Blues with no problems. We went the entire 12 hours at the Point on one set of pads finishing tenth overall and first in class. For 24 hour races we would change brake pads about the 16 hour mark.

On my Baby Grand, I currently am using Hawk DTC60 on the front and DTC30 on the rears. These pads are awesome. I have really enjoyed the way the work. Very high initial bite and steep torque curve. Easy to modulate.
My Baby Grand came to me with Carbotech pads on it, I was just never really happen with them. However, the Puskars are great folks and offer incredible customer service.

Brake pad compounds are one of those things that you do not know what works for you until you try them on your race car.

YMMV.
cheers
dave parker

I used Hawk Blues front and rear on my RX7 for 5 years. Love them. They bite hard and I actually like the "on/off" feel. Downside is that they are an older compound that does not have the heat tolerance of modern pads causing some late race fade. Also the brake dust they put off really bakes onto the wheels.

I have since moved to the DTC 60. These pads have a higher heat tolerance than the Blues. In my opinion they have less initial bite and require more modulation than the Blue which may be a pro or con depending on your style. So far I have been happy with their performance.

Pads I have also tried include Carbotech and PFC, Unfortunately I do not remember which exact compounds I was running (probably whatever is popular among the sm ranks) but I found these pads to have very little bite and require way to much peddle pressure to generate stopping power. (but again i like pads that bite)

Carbotech all around. Dont remember the compounds but way better than hawk blues.

Its rx7

Wierdo here. KFP Golds, on both the ITB 924 and the DSR! LOL

Miata ITA X12 on front and X10 on the rear. The front last 5 weekends and the rears all year.

Originally tried Hawks, thought they were just okay. They tried Porterfields, killed rotors quickly. Moved to Carbotech and used that on the Prelude and now Miata. One relatively new thing I like that they offer is a pre-bedding service. I now no longer need to use track time for that purpose or attempt to do it in the paddock. One less thing to worry about.

Carbotech XP12/10 F/R.

I'm trying to go fast: I don't give a s**t about what they do to my rotors. Don't even really pay attention; just replace them when needed. Don't pay attention to how long they last; just replace them when needed.

I just shut up and drive.

- GA

Nissan 300zx - 2800# - I had bad luck w/ Carbotech so I used Hawk Blue and they were OK, but pad choices were limited unless I wanted to buy custom pads.

'95 Miata in IT trim - 2300# for enduros we used Hawk Blue for a while, but found they could be inconsistent, sometimes we would burn through them faster than others. So we switched to PFC (forget the compound) and they were easier to modulate and lasted longer. We could do a 12 hour at Summit w/ plenty to spare and did the 24 at Nelson w/o changing pads.

2002 Miata in ITS trim - 2300# - I've been using Porterfield R4 all around and they have been great. Good wear, good modulation.

DTC-70 front, DTC-30 or autozone full metallics in the rear on a 2660 lb ITS Prelude.

Bite and modulation is slightly better than the Carbotech XP12s I used to run, but they don't last anywhere near as long. The pedal was also firmer with the Carbotechs on the virtue that they shove more pad material on there.

On the ITS Mustangs we're using Carbotech XP10s in the front and a softer AX6 compound in the back. The brakes work extremely well and we don't have problems in longer 1.5 hour enduros.

Pad wear is right at 0.060 to 0.070" per hour of race time (at VIR), and the pads will last about eight hours max, nominally seven hours, before they need to be changed out. Brake modulation is good, rotor life seems to be fine as we've got over 2.5 sets of pads against the same rotors and the rotors show no signs of fatigue.

The car weighs 2820 lbs with driver and has 11.2" diameter ventilated discs upfront, which are over 1.125" thick, along with a single piston caliper. The rear has solid 10" discs with a smallish single piston caliper.

I've tried just about everything, and a lot of it is track dependent. For example, it really doesn't matter what I put on the car at Roebling, but at VIR or CMP it is critical. In any event, for a 2680 lb car with solid front discs, tiny pads and drum rears:

1. Hawk blues: Never liked the hard bite and very hard on rotors.

2. Hawk HT-10: Better rotor wear, does ok dealing with heat, ok pedal feel, seem to last the longest at CMP which is critical for me. I typically kill a front set of pads in one "race day" there -- qual/race.

Use these more than any other pad, and price is decent.

3. Carbotech XP-12s. Never warmed up to them. Really grooved the rotors on my car. Pedal feel decent and everything but the rotor wear was harsh.

4. Raybestos STS-43s. I really like the feel and the wear on rotor and pad is great. BUT, for whatever reason, despite what you scientist types say, these things generate a lot of heat and kill caliper seals faster than any other pad I run. Zsolt has noticed the same thing. So, high price, good feel, great wear, but watch the caliper seal failure.....

5. PFC 90s. They don't make this compound any more for my pad shape but when I was first starting I really liked it. Hard to compare though becuase I was so slow back then.

Raybestos ST-43's from Porterfield for me. Excellent feel and rotor wear, and the pads are a once a year change on a 2000lb CRX. I will change rotors 2x or 3x a year, as the pads do generate heat and crack the rotor friction surface as a result of repeated expansion/contraction. But, rotors for my car are $14 each from Rock Auto. Small price to pay for good brakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by preparedcivic

Raybestos ST-43's from Porterfield for me. Excellent feel and rotor wear, and the pads are a once a year change on a 2000lb CRX. I will change rotors 2x or 3x a year, as the pads do generate heat and crack the rotor friction surface as a result of repeated expansion/contraction. But, rotors for my car are $14 each from Rock Auto. Small price to pay for good brakes.

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Rob and I are on the same page here on the ST-43's for our ITB crx's.

but his comment about changing the rotors frequently is key, imo. i think some of the wear folks see is due to micro-cracks creating a rough surface that in turn basically starts "filing" away the pad material.

change the cheap rotors more frequently for longer pad life.

On the GA RX8's we used Hawk DTC 60 and HT 10. No problems with rotors and very good wear.

Thanks for the replies everyone! I think this will be helpful if newbies are checking it out. I also found it helpful to see what everyone was running and get a few ideas!

Stephen

I ran Raybestos ST-43 from Porterfield on my IT7. Only one race on them (ARRC 3 hour) but they never faded or caused any issues. The rest of the car had some issues but the brakes were fantastic. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greg Amy

Carbotech XP12/10 F/R.

I'm trying to go fast: I don't give a s**t about what they do to my rotors. Don't even really pay attention; just replace them when needed. Don't pay attention to how long they last; just replace them when needed.

I just shut up and drive.

- GA

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AMEN BROTHER! :happy204:

Hawk DTC-70 front, HT-10 rear.

Last year I ran 10 SCCA weekends, ran every lap of every session. Probably a chunk of local races, DEs, and track days too.

I've had the same pads on the car for ~2yrs and still have 40% left. rotors are about 5 yrs old and still have tons of meat left, but they're beginning to get big enough cracks that I'm considering it might be time to replace them. (I've been hauling spares in the trailer for two years waiting for these to die.)

Considering that I've gotten probably 300hrs off an $85 rotor and roughly 60hrs on a set of pads, I'm not upset at all....

As a Distributor for Carbotech I like their stuff.

I build race cars though, so I have learned to help supply people with what works best for their car and driving habits.

Carbotech brakes work the best as I have found with many of the modern ABS systems.

Greg scoffs at worrying about rotor wear, but his rotors are cheap and don't require pressing bearing races and all new bearings at every rotor swap, like my car does. And my rotors are getting to be tough to find, and pricey. ($70 each, plus bearings plus pressing, etc).

Like Greg, I run the Carbotechs, after being frustrated by Hawks.
And they are better in every way EXCEPT they chew up and spit out rotors too quickly, compared to hawks.
But, I wanted to go fast, so I bit the bullet.
With the need for proper bedding, disc and bearing swapping, and limited track time, I didn't test other pad compounds or makes.

This on an IT7 with pretty small front discs that are hard pressed to cope with the speeds.

SSM Miata, 2275 lbs., primary track is Summit.

1. Currently on Carbotech 8/10 combination that is popular for these cars. I love how progressively they bite. Relatively easy on rotors, but like tGA, I just want to go fast and replace as needed.

In the past I've tried:

2. Hawk blacks and blues. Very digital in feel, they're either off or all in. Brutal on rotors.

3. PFC77 as recommended by a Known Fast Guy (Bowie). Hated 'em. Never liked the amount of initial bite, never felt very strong. Not my preference, though many swear by them.

In the end I just bought yet another set of Carbotechs (I wish OG sold them, because I prefer dealing with Dave to dealing with Saferacer) and I'm trying a set of Centric rotors as recommended by others on the brown board (Amazon Prime rocks). Previously used whatever the cheapest things were from Rock Auto with no problems.

I use Pagid RS-N on StopTech ST40 calipers and floating rotors.

I used to use PF01 - they were really good, but the Pagid RS pads are a big step up.

Anyone with a 2400Lbs car and 9" rotors f&r that has experienced the Carbotechs????