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Two races coming up soon and not many IT cars signed up. I was on the fence between the two until I realized I can only run one day at Hallett, so the decision was made easy to go to Memphis.
Only 10 regional guys signed up, and 50 total so if you're planning to go, get your entry in soon so the organizers can plan ahead. No idea if they have a minimum car count to hold the event, but hope there's enough now.
$500 entry fee doesn't help that event. And it won't help Gateway either if the entry fees will be the same. (Same track owner.)
Getting rid of the IT Tour for Sunday at Hallett is going to hurt that event too. Take a look at the entries. Only 4 IT drivers signed up so far. There were 15 IT drivers last year. They better hope a lot more National drivers sign up to make up the money.
We'll see the closer we get to the event if it will be a success.
Track owners don't set the entry fees, though. Hoping Gateway's will be less, and I'll lean on the committee to encourage it.
Apparently the addition of the new National Super Tour at Hallett made them have to get rid of IT Tour. I've only read a little about this new thing, but don't see it helping anyone. Sounds like yet another SCCA gimmick to entice sponsors rather than help it's own members.
It's actually the new Majors program that screwed us. It was a National Super Tour race last year and that didn't affect the IT Tour.
"Rational Memories" Double National March 31-April 1 2012
Feb 19, 2012 - 03:16 AM by Admin
First Ever "Rational Memories" at the Memphis International Raceway, Memphis, TN.
1st Two Day Double National and Double Regional in the MidWest Division, all in one weekend. March 31, April 1 2012.
Pre-registration for all race workers and drivers at http://www.motorsportsreg.com.
Sanction number(s) 12-R-2147-S/12-N-2148-S/12-R-2149-S/12-N-2150-S have been granted for the Regional/National/Regiona/National event(s) conducted by the Mid South Region to be held at MIR on March 30 April 1, 2012.
Download entry forms, supplemental rules and schedule from our Road Racing Section of our Download Library
http://www.midsouthscca.org/
NO LATE FEE WILL BE APPLIED
Not directly, but if the rental fees are high and the race group doesn't want to lose their shirt....Quote:
Originally Posted by RX555
I really, really wanted to go to Memphis this year. The MidDiv guys supported us at Nashville, but work has made that impossible for this race. I have heard nothing but good things about the Memphis hospitality and Barbecue If you are on the fence, take advantage of the no late fee and head to Memphis. I think one of our local guys is going to try and make it.
See you later this year or next.
PS. Hallett is on my list as well. I was last there for an IMSA race in about 1979 I think. Could have been '78.
I don't think it's the same track owner. Dover owned both before but neither now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
And it's $310 for Gateway, same as two years ago.
Glad to see the entry fees for Gateway didn't go up.
Ralf and other IT drivers:
A few questions regarding entry fees and track time....
1. If you could pick between longer races (national-length, with National-level fees) or shorter races (regional-length, with somewhat-lower entry fees), which would you choose?
2. Do you prefer to run as a part of an IT-only group (as has been traditional in Midiv or at least at MAM), or "sprinkled into" the various other groups where appropriate (based on theoretical speed)?
You may mix and match among those options to a degree, but it's not 100% a-la-carte....
Are there other thoughts y'all have along these lines?
Thanks!
Jarrod
Thanks for asking Jarrod. I don't care as much about length of the race. I ran Memphis last week and did the full national distance (well, other than getting lapped twice by AS cars). It was fun, but would just as soon do the regional length and lower entry. Otherwise, I don't see the point of having national and regional licences. (Not sure I see the point of that anymore, but is a topic for a different thread).
Don't really care who I'm on track with as long as there's somebody to run with.
Mostly just wanna have at least two track sessions per day for two days. I'm not gonna tow long distances for one day.
I prefer the shorter regional, lower cost races. My only concern now is on how many IT drivers we've lost because of the Majors program. I talked with Mitch and Brett on friday and both of them are "maybe" for MAM and only because its local. They are not planning on running any other SCCA races. Gary Learned is also done with SCCA. Who knows how many others we've lost to NASA.
I would suggest someone mail a questionare to all past IT racers and poll them on their plans before making any decisions.
The input is appreciated - thanks guys!
Anyone else want to share? Even if you're not planning on running with us, the more opinions the better!
I think the Majors program is going to have some unintended consequences that are going to hurt SCCA racing overall, but that is my own personal opinion. What I do know for sure is that we have fewer races on our schedule, but with gas for the truck at $3.85/gal, something had to give...
Okay... since you've given me an opening, I'll vent a little. Or maybe a lot. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by JIgou
I decided not to renew my SCCA license this year for a number of reasons, but primarily because from my point of view, Improved Touring as a category took it in the shorts due to decisions at the national and divisional levels. Personally, I went from 8 scheduled races (4 complete weekends) in 2011, to 3 races (a weekend and a Saturday), at the two tracks I considered my "home tracks", in 2012. Those two tracks are the only ones that are under 200 miles one way tow for me... Hallett and Topeka. Bottom line - "Super Tours" and "Major Invitationals" (or whatever) took 5 races away for the IT guys in this neck of the woods. Wonderful.
Furthermore, at the vast majority of remaining (long tow... 350 to 500+ miles one way) race weekends, we're talking Double Rationals. This meant running much longer races on both days, and to prove what? FWIW, I'm not one of the guys that buys into the "...more seat time is better" argument; in IT cars especially, this simply means more broken parts, more general wear and tear, significantly more expense, for the same wooden plaque. But then I've always thought (since 1960-something) that National races were too way long. Now we're making regional racers run those same too-long races. BS. Unless you're into enduros, there's a green flag and a checkered flag, and the latter is the point at which we determine the winner. How many times you pass the starter's stand between those two flags is pretty much irrelevant. Maybe I'm just weird.
In any case, MidDiv has somewhat belatedly (2 days ago) reacted to this situation by sending out a scheduling letter that points out IT will have it's own run group at all those Double Rationals. Nice try, but sorry... too damned late, my plans are made. Besides, it (separate run groups) will probably not be what actually happens when push comes to shove, because I'd wager that entry numbers are not going to support IT-only run groups in this division this year. Six IT cars - yes, that's all IT classes - showed up at Memphis and a total of seven entered at Hallett, two days before grid! Obviously I'm not the only guy that thinks there's something wrong here.
And then there's the 1000 bucks or so I was going to have to spend on safety equipment this year, for no valid reason (just my opinion, of course). And the $4 per gallon gas, and the $500 entry fee at Memphis, and the double points bonus race at a track that is tucked away in a geographical corner of the division, and...
To Hell with it. I'm going back to running COMMA events at Hallett. 85 mile tow, events once per month. For the "seat time" advocates, plenty of it for a $125 Sunday-only entry, including two (count 'em, 2) races.
Gary pretty much summed up my feelings on the whole mess.
The schedule was sorted out waaaay to late to make any plans. Taking away races was a bad move being that IT "was" one of the biggest race groups in the MiDiv. The mass confusion of what the "Majors" program is and it's execution didn't impress me at all. Just made me think that SCCA leadership is asleep at the wheel. Boy did I feel burnt after spending a ton of money making my car competitive and then find out I'm not part of the "cool classes".
Like others have mentioned, I don't need more seat time during a race weekend. Personally, I do track days for practice and testing. I'm not rich, less wear and tear on my equipment is a good thing. HPT, MAM and MPH are my tracks. Anything outside that radius is too far. If I could afford to spend thousands of dollars in gas, food, hotel rooms, etc. I would race in a National class.
I'm not washing my hands of SCCA, yet. I'll wait and see how things pan out. I hate to be a pessimist but my gut feeling is IT's days are numbered in the MiDiv. Maybe that was the plan all along?
My racing plans for this year have been scuttled due to a job change and move to Tulsa which is in progress. Once that is settled I'll get back in the swing of things.
HOWEVER........................................... .................
I also find myself leaning away from the SCCA a bit but its only due to the "convenience" of brand "N" being a bit more pro-active and "friendlier" to the whole process of racing. I think being closer (30 minutes!!!! Take that friends!) to a track like Hallett will make this a wash in the end for me.
Hallet observations: Had a chance to spend half a day at Hallett yesterday visiting some of my racing pals from Arkansas and Missouri. The first observation: There was 1 (!) non Miata IT car entered, an ITS E30 Bimmer from KC I think. Damn near the whole run group consisted of Miatas of the SM/STL/ITA variety. LOTS of "double dipping" Miatas in one form or another. I have my excuses for not running but this was a pathetic IT turnout to say the least. I sure hate to see the IT crowd get exterminated or run off but this was not very good in my opinion.
Although I am not totally on board with all of Gary's comments, I think I see the point he's trying to make. Since I'm moving to the Tulsa area, Hallett's COMMA series is looking like a better bang for the buck. And for the record my new house is EXACTLY 46 minutes from the track!
Unfortunately, SCCA headquarters won't see the lack of IT cars entered as a problems since they got plenty of entries for this event. They'll just say that all the IT drivers entered in SM or STL and that is why the IT numbers were so low. With those drivers double dipping, they certainly didn't lose any money on the event either.
We'll see how successful Topeka is May 5th-6th.
Our "STU" car would have been another real IT entry if I'd decided to race at Hallett....but I didn't have it budgeted, so I just went along and watched Dave drive his a** off in the STU gunfight with our butter knife. :-) It DOES appear that a butter knife is OK to have on a drying track during qualifying, at least.
Gary, I'm glad you took the opportunity to vent. IMHO, this kind of frank discussion is exactly what needs to be shared. Not everyone will be happy about everything, but this certainly seems to be reaching a consensus. I do ask one thing: no matter your thoughts, please share them with your RE and the national BOD. This forum is a small piece of the overall puzzle, and even the forums at scca.com aren't taken as "official" - a letter to the BOD is the only officially-recognized avenue of discourse that they acknowledge. So please use that:mailto:[email protected]
FYI, the following is almost but not quite set in stone: MAM in June will have a stand-alone IT group at a regional race length both days, a smaller entry fee than the Rational fee, will be spaced to try to let as many "share the car" guys share as possible, AND IT will not be the last group of the day.
Aside from paving the paddock, I think that covers as many of the requests as possible - at least the ones I've heard.
Jarrod , I'm not in MW Division , but our family has plans to relocate this summer ( assuming the Houston house sells ) to Memphis.
If I assume that I'm living in Memphis , I'm shocked by the tow distances. Just not viable to race for a regional championship out of Memphis due to the long tows. Drives me toward STL and choose between winter/spring races in Texas , Memphis , Gateway , Hallett , Atlanta , Barber.
FWIW : I prefer more / shorter sessions / races.
FWIW2 : In SW Division , the ( slim ) IT field runs with EP,FP,HP,GTL,STU,STL,SSB group. Some of the EP cars will lap some of the IT guys , but from my perspective it works pretty well. It ends up being the largest group of the weekend.
Yeah, I feel for the drivers in Memphis and Mississippi. With all the outstanding tracks in the southeast and southwest it doesn't make sense to tow to Nebraska for a regional.Quote:
Originally Posted by TStiles
As an aside to this discussion, I really don't care about points or championships. Living on the eastern edge of the MW division, it's a long tow to some of the tracks, so I've only been to Memphis and Topeka besides Gateway. I hope to make Hallett and MAM someday and like the idea of supporting the divisional races, but have a limited amount of weekends off and do what works in the schedule.
If I'm gonna tow far, would just as soon go to Road America, Barber, or Mid Ohio and run on the "pro" tracks. And there's several Cendiv/nasa tracks within a 4-5 hr tow too.
So, in case you're wondering, my point is don't let points chasing get in the way of getting out and having fun on the track.
:o :( Noooo!Quote:
Originally Posted by TStiles
Jarrod, Unfortunately I wouldn't call Hallett's race much of a gunfight in ST. There were a few guns, but none of them did well. deBarros was the only truly quick car there that finished the race. McClughan had ECU problems, Grahovec "blowed up" (again), Koller was having a rough time with his transmission, and my 240SX is nowhere near prepped to STU limits (it's an ITS car with brakes and a wing), and I was having brake bias and trans issues all weekend too. Trans is currently out of the car getting a rebuild since I munched the synchros on 2,3,4 trying to catch your bimmer!
Get all of those other guys back on a good weekend where everything is running well and it will be a hoot.
The geographical spread of Midiv is horrible....and, what's worse, we've got tracks in every freaking corner of the division. Even when the economy was "good", a divisional championship wasn't much more than an attendance award for most classes. Now? It's ugly, and only getting worse while the race groups try to figure out how to stay solvent.
There were guns there....they just wouldn't fire. Not your fault OR mine that they chose high-strung cars instead of reliable (cough) IT cars. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
I figured McClughan was in trouble when I wandered past his paddock spot one time on Saturday and it looked like he had half (or more) of the wiring harness laying on the ground.
If those guys (and others like them) would get their stuff sorted and reliable and whip up on us all proper-like, that would help keep us from making very dumb and expensive decisions about car prep - we'd just pull back and stay in IT where the car is "competitive".
I haven't talked to Joe since I was on my way to grid Sat morning, but he wasn't happy. Usually he's well prepped and the car runs fine.. I think this is the first race in a year he hasn't finished (and whooped me arse in the process..)
Looks like IT will get it's own run group from here on out, according to the schedule info on the Midiv website.... :happy204:
Yeah, it will be great if cars show up.(Hint, hint. Paul!) Only two IT cars signed up so far with 2 weeks until the event. A shame, considering IT used to be the biggest run group before this years changes. Of course we don't get an invite to Topeka in July.
I'm reasonably certain that the DMVR race at MidAmerica Motorplex in early June will have IT as a separate group (and I don't think it's going to be the last group).
After doing some analysis of entries over the past 7 years this afternoon, I long for the days when we had 20-25 IT cars in one group again ... (ah, but one has to have dreams, right??)
Hope to see all of you at the event!
Kelley Huxtable
"PLAY SAFE"
DMVR
I presume you're talking about Topeka? Only 16 cars entered for the whole thing!! That's counting 2 pdx and the one school entrant. Only one school entrant is really dismal. I see there's a Majors event at Texas the same weekend, but they only have 71 or so entries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
As far as Topeka, when I was planning out the season last month or so, they didn't have much regional track time listed, so I dismissed it. Now I've just realized they've added IT races, but a week doesn't leave me much time to work it out. I hope it works out for them.
Guess we got side tracked. Yes, Topeka.
I wonder how much the national office is willing to pay KVRG for the low car count since its a Majors Showcase event. They did say they would make up the difference to the regions so they don't lose money, right?
If the whole IT/Rational thing had been worked out at the beginning of the year, and the PtB in the Midiv actually listened to what the racers wanted (ala Rocky's Survey), I don't think we'd be in this situation. But I've seen almost no advertising of this coming weekend, which is unfortunate since it will be a PDX/Vintage weekend as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by RX555
At least the PowarPeon is scheduled to make it's season debut... if we can get it fired up... :rolleyes: