ECR and V8 cars

This is a subject that I've been on for a couple of years now and I would like to bring it up again.

I race a Mustang. I enjoy enduros more than sprint races and would compete in ECR, if I were allowed. I'm not.

The rules do allow that non-ECR classed cars may enter ECR events on a region by region bases. That does allow me to race enduros where the fields are the largest. VIR and Road Atlanta. NC region and Atlanta region approve it. The rest of SEDiv does not or has not.

I'd simply say this. Where the fields are the largest and the speeds the greatest my former Grand Am GS Mustangs and others of similar class have never had an issue with the rest of the field. Where the fields are the smallest and the speed differential not as great, we are not permitted to compete.

That seems backwards to me. We are allowed to race where car counts are strong and not allowed to race where they are not so strong.

I would like to ask for support from this IT forum to allow ITO cars into the ECR next season on a provisional basis. With the economy and car counts down, this is a good time to try it.

Thank you.

I would support it, but I have no "pull". to make it happen.

I think it's reasonable to do that but like Steven - maybe MORE SO than Steven - my opinion isn't worth much.

K

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Originally Posted by Knestis

I think it's reasonable to do that but like Steven - maybe MORE SO than Steven - my opinion isn't worth much.

K

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Kirk, no worries, mate, this isn't the CRB you're talking about, your opinion is equally unvaluable as anyones~!

Regarding the subject, seems like common sense to me, but I'M a Yankee, so MY opinion IS worth less than anyone from the area affected!

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Originally Posted by lateapex911

I'M a Yankee, so MY opinion IS worth less than anyone from the area affected!

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Worse yet, I'm a damn Yankee because I moved down here. So my opinion isn't worth diddly-squat ...........:blink:

FWIW, the Nashville ECR does allow ITO cars and last time I checked, there were only 8 or 9 cars entered. Butch Kummer says it's a good track for big thumping cars, so you might want to look into it. Registration deadline is next Tuesday.

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Originally Posted by Hotshoe

Worse yet, I'm a damn Yankee because I moved down here. So my opinion isn't worth diddly-squat ...........:blink:

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I think you're called a "carpet bagger" :D

Rob

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I race a Mustang. I enjoy enduros more than sprint races and would compete in ECR, if I were allowed. I'm not.

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As an alternative to waiting for ECR acceptance, you may want to consider a more substantial endurance race like The Devil in the Dark 12 Hour Endurance race at NJMP on 19 June. Your Grand Am Mustang is eligible under our ITE rules which allow cars from most professional series which run (ran) on DOT tires. You could get a season worth of ECR on a single weekend.

And if your are concerned how you might be treated 'up North', remember that NJMP is south of the Mason Dixon line.

Just sayin'

Terry

Rob, so your car is in ITO in NCR, not ITE?

What sort of times do you turn at VIR?

Thanks for the responses.

1. I am aware of the Nashville event. That is Atlanta region if I remember correctly. They allow V8 cars.
Unfortunately there is a NASA 3 hour enduro at Road Atlanta on that Friday that I am committed to.

2. I can't come close to affording to run a 12 hour race. I can race an ECR without having to pay a full crew, plus the tires, fuel and brakes expended in a 12 hour race.
Those races are for rich people which I am not.

3. ITO is a points paying SARRC class. ITE isn't. I have not run this car at VIR as yet.
With professional drivers in Grand Am they run 2:05-06. My car without the professional, no expenses spared developement and set up and with an average amatuer driver in the seat, I am not sure. I would probably run 2:14-2:13. Tony Ave might run a 2:06-07 in it as its sits.

Cliff Brown and Joe Lee Middlebrooks ran 1:36 in cool weather at Road Atlanta and I ran 1:39's. I am a lot better at Road Atlanta than at VIR. Where I have never had a lap faster than 2:20 in my previous Mustang.

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Originally Posted by Cobrar05

Cliff Brown and Joe Lee Middlebrooks ran 1:36 in cool weather at Road Atlanta and I ran 1:39's. I am a lot better at Road Atlanta than at VIR. Where I have never had a lap faster than 2:20 in my previous Mustang.

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Based on that data it would seem that you guys are only a bit faster, and maybe a bit slower at some tracks, than ITS cars. So there shouldn't be any big problems racing the car where ITS/ITR is allowed.

At RA ITS is running from a low (Huffmaster I think) of around 1:37 to 1:41 or so. At VIR ITS cars run typical laps of 2:17-2:19 at the pointy end.

On the other hand, Chris brought his ITR Mustang V6 to VIR and ran a 2:20 there at around 3000 lbs. Chris is a relatively new racer and had never run VIR before. So, it might indeed be that your car would be outside the ITS/ITR envelope of performance at many tracks.

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

So, it might indeed be that your car would be outside the ITS/ITR envelope of performance at many tracks.

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Nothing personal, but it's not about THIS car with THIS driver, it's about letting ITO cars in. You add the class, you add anything that is legal. Some research on ITO track records is in order I would think.

<--- No ITO up here. ITE covers all.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt

Nothing personal, but it's not about THIS car with THIS driver, it's about letting ITO cars in. You add the class, you add anything that is legal. .

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True that.

I've just never been clear on ITO vs ITE etc. I know ITE is regional and defined locally. I've got an ITE car here in NCR, and I think that it might not be an ITE car down in Atlanta but ITO, not sure.

ITO is going thru some reconfiguration. It initially allowed cars that are now running in the STO class. The original idea for the class as to attract NASA American Iron crossover entries. Allowing Retired World Challenge cars and other modified cars in the 600hp ranges sort of killed that idea.

It appears that ITO is going back to its orginal plan of keeping the HP to Weight down in these cars.
Running Grand Am GS rules Mustangs and M3s these cars are good endurance cars and are fairly plentiful. Right now NASA is the only place they have to race.

ECR's are easily the best track time value that we have. I think the more invited the better

Cobra05, last year at the Nashville Heart of Dixie Double SARRC/ECR, we went with the standard ECR classes. You requested we add ITO so you could run. So we requested the ECR Committee give us an exception to the ECR rules to add ITO to the Nashville race for 2010.
Exception was granted, so ITO added.
No ITOs entered though, so far.

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

I know ITE is regional and defined locally.

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That's a true statement for any class that's not in the actual GCR, including ITE, ITO, ITU, etc. I'd be curious what those things mean for the SARRC. We don't have ITO or ITU out here, we do have ITE which is basically wide open rules. Literally, the only rules in ITE are: originally a "tub chassis" (understood to mean "not tube frame"), DOT tires, and IT-legal safety gear, otherwise, do whatever you want. There are some VERY fast cars in our version of ITE.

Is that what ITO/ITU are, except that there's an engine-size split? What is ITE in the places where ITO/ITU exist?

Around here, Josh, it's similar to yours. So, twin turbo 3.8 ltr 911s with bodacious power and weighing 2000 or so is not uncommon.

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Originally Posted by JoshS

Is that what ITO/ITU are, except that there's an engine-size split? What is ITE in the places where ITO/ITU exist?

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Well, here is Mr. Young hisownself in our ITE car....he's attacking time or some such nonsense, although time gets him back later.....Fast we're not but we are working on it....

http://www.gt40s.com/images/lola/spi...isoutfront.jpg

thats dead sexy

Try to avoid the "d" word around it. Apparently more than a few folks ended their careers in those things. Not as sexy as the real deal as we have the heritage nose body work and a real cage, but maybe we'll have a longer career.

http://www.slotcarillustrated.com/Ne...led/400301.jpg

There are all sorts of crazy things in IT in NC. Every year there is/was a turbo winged Honda that was fast as stink at the 13 hour. A Firebird with some sort of 600hp engine that seems to go bang each year, and one year a Daytona Coupe replica ran that had a 408" motor making some 550 hp or so. It was really fast, but blew up spectacularily in roller coaster about right in front of me. Cool car, but it was in the pits for gas like every 20 laps.

http://www.openroadmotorsports.com/i...ytonaCoupe.jpg

Sorry about the Nashville date. It has not been opposite the NASA date in the past and I would love to do it. My Parents and Sister and Nieces live in Nashville and could come see me race. But I have a standing paying co driver for anything at Road Atlanta and my racing budget requires I do those events.

ITO is basically old Grand Am GS cars and NASA AI cars. Those cars are competitive amonst each other. My experience with ITE is that there are all kinds of things that fall into that class that come with A LOT more HP

Okay, I looked it up. SE Division's ITO *says* it's like ITE in other parts of the country, but in fact it's just a collection of cars built to other series specs (and the ITO rules require that the competitor has a copy of those specs), much more limited than our ITE is. Maybe there are ITE classes out there like this somewhere else, I don't know.

This document doesn't list rules for an ITU.

http://www.sedivracing.org/2010SEDiv...ClassRules.pdf

So to compare lap times with solid ITR/ITS time around here for Grand Am GS:

Lime Rock: 3 seconds faster
Watkins Glen: 9-10 seconds faster

Then others:

VIR: How does a 2:03.7 compare? Yikes!!!
Barber: 1:38.3

About 13-14 seconds a lap quicker at VIR then, and about 7-8 at Barber.

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Originally Posted by JeffYoung

About 13-14 seconds a lap quicker at VIR then, and about 7-8 at Barber.

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At VIR the stewards would probably perceive that as a problem if there was only one car in the group capable of that differential lap time.

two points of clarification.

1. The ITO rules are being restructured to lower the max HP and the speed potential in the class. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the current rules are being changed because many of the cars allowed in the current ITO rules are now STO cars.

2. I am already allow to race at VIR. I am allowed to race at Road Atlanta. I am not allowed to race at cmp and roebling and I am not allowed to race for points.

For what it's worth, when ITR was introduced, we had to lobby the committee pretty hard to be included. I'm afraid you may have an uphill battle.