Is It Really Worth It?

I had to withdraw for the test day and double SARRC race at Barber this weekend. This makes two races in a row but last time my wife and I had some nasty virus that drained all our energy and made us light headed. This time it was the cost. The total bill was going to run $1200. At the last minute, while eating lunch after having loaded everything up and was ready to go I came to the realization that I can not afford that at this time. The economy this year has put a squeeze on my income and the future is looking even dimmer.

Perhaps I need to limit myself to singles at home until things turn around. Even at that point I am questioning the entertainment value of driving. While I enjoy it and can not explain what it is like to someone who has never done it I feel there are numerous things I would enjoy more, for a longer period of time and at less cost.

In the past I have had more fun crewing or working on a race weekend than I do now with the cost and hassle involved with a car. I love the adrenine rush spiced with fear but maybe not enough to justify the price, work and time involved. This weekend alone was going to consume 4 days when all said and done and that does not include the car prep. My vacations aren't much longer than that, cost less, people are paid to wait on me and the food, scenery and company is much better (no offense meant to you guys but I prefer babes in bikinis).

I may also have become so averse to spending money unless absolutely necessary that I can not enjoy myself when I do. It has paid off in that I have no current or future debt but I ain't having any fun either.

I guess I'm done but still frustrated.

Sounds to me as if it might be time to park it for a while. I know where you're at, I was there about 2002. I was spending cubic dollars racing local short track stuff and was just burned out. I walked away. sold the race car, trailer, everything and bought a couple motorcycles for the wife and I.

I got the itch again in 2006 and with the help of friends, have gone road racing........

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Originally Posted by tom_sprecher

...(no offense meant to you guys but I prefer babes in bikinis)...

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Selfish bastard. ;)

The older I become, the more valuable my time. In part because I have less of it in the bank; in part because there are more demands for it.

Just an observation. I don't have anything to offer other than possibly going the arrive and drive route, just to get the fix.

I feel your pain and sympathize greatly! My son and I are not racing at HPT this weekend due to a budget crunch. We spent the better part of this year chasing points and it has been 1200 or so each time not counting broken car parts. Pretty tough to do on our shoestring budget. The spike in towing costs has essentially doubled our weekend expenses. To the credit of the SCCA Midwest division regions, they have not increased entry fees much, if at all, to help out.

Having said all of that we are taking a break till October and the last race of the year at Gateway. I also keep wondering if its worth it but each time my son comes off the track and I see his smile answers that every time for me. I'll keep finding a way to get our fix even if it means getting back into the autocross scene more often. Damn, this racing stuff is worse than crack or cocaine................so I've been told.

Tom,

.....Sorry to hear that...... Even though I don't have a chance (when compared to Babes in bikinis) I hope we (your friends at the track)come in a close second ....LOL

I completely undestand how you feel.... It's really not any one thing that causes your budget to go bust, it's a little of everything. We're still dealing with the trickle down of the effects of the huge surge in oil costs, even though the cost of fuel is going down for the moment. If you're burned out then you need to take a break, and it's a smart sportsman who knows they're burning out , over-training, and need to stop pushing so hard, put the sport away and return later. I'd say if you have the room store the car, or maybe rent it out to some one you trust for an occasional race, drive it in an autocross or a track day.

While I'm not sure I've ever been where you are right now, I have had to adapt to a limited driving schedule since I sold my AS car in '01 and began building my current ITS car in '02.

I did the points chase, every race, every available weekend thing in the late '90s. I won a regional championship and decided shortly thereafter that it wasn't as big a deal as I thought it would be. I decided from there to pick and choose the races I really wanted to do, and just race less but have more fun doing it.

And while I have relied heavily on the kindness of friends these past few years for rented rides, I don't expect that my outlook will change now that my car is completed.

Tom,
I thought perhaps I was the only one dealing with the burnout issue. Good to know (I guess) there are others in the same boat.

My ITC Rabbit took a fatal turn into the concrete at IRP this past May and I was not at the wheel when it happened. The Bunny was about 95% developed and I had all the confidence in the car to run top 5 or a little better at the IT Fest. It was too much fun to race. The guy who bent the Bunny replaced it with a'84 GTI that is not much better than the Rabbit when I started working and learning it. Granted, the curve should be nowhere near as steep as before but I find myself lacking the enthusiasm to get into the garage and wail on the GTI. The biggest problem that I am facing isn't money, per se, but my age. I will be 55 in October, and while I'm not ready to get out of the seat, it is the tremendous amount of time required to prep the car that kicks my butt. I do the car myself, and as everyone on this site will attest, there is always something you want or have to do to get ready for the next time out. I swear, this sport is the most trying of addictions. You beat your brains out & bust your knuckles, ass, and bank account for months at a time - for what? For that exhilaration, that rush, that high, that realistically is only surpassed (barely) by a really good orgasm. I love racing racecars, there is nothing I have ever done that compares with this sport, but this can be the most demanding of mistresses.

I will probably park the car after my first adventure to MidOhio in October and ignore the siren's call for awhile. Drag it out to a track day at Putnam a couple times next year to get my fix, I suppose, maybe the spring race at IRP since it is so close. But that's all. But MidOhio's not that far, and my cousin lives kinda close to there, and I could...

I thought about quitting also...

IT...

Think I'm going SRF so I won't get passed on the straights at my home track by "once a year" guys in cheater V-Dubs that sound like ITA cars.

Seriously...WTF!!!

(Pardon me... I'm pissed and have had way too much wine):mad1:

I'm in the same boat - and I've decided to take a few years off. I know I want to keep racing, but my kids are at an age where I find myself having more fun taking them to do kid stuff than I do behind the wheel, and that is why the car is for sale.

I will race again in the future, but probably not again until my kids reach that age where it's no longer cool to hang out with dad.

This sport has taken a lot out me, physically, financially, and the even more highly valued time. That said, the rush has been more than worth the price of admission. I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat.

I'll probably do some co-drives, autocrosses, and of course the Crow Mountain Hillclimb, but it will likely be a while before I really road race again.

See you on the track in the future.:D

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Originally Posted by dlg208

I thought about quitting also...

IT...

Think I'm going SRF so I won't get passed on the straights at my home track by "once a year" guys in cheater V-Dubs that sound like ITA cars.

Seriously...WTF!!!

(Pardon me... I'm pissed and have had way too much wine):mad1:

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Settle down there, it's really not like that. :blink:

Back on-topic - yes, time to take a break. It's a hobby, it's supposed to be fun, and if it's not fun, then why are you doing it? Time to dial it back.

I've been chasing the points championship hard at my home track for 3 years. Finally won it this year. I don't see myself trying to win it again next year; it's evolved to the point that I don't enjoy it anymore, not at that track in those fields. Rather, I think I'll be spending my time and money chasing the competition on the big tracks at the bigger races. Then I'm sure I'll get burnt out with those, and wander back home for some more time there.

But ya gotta mix it up, and you have to be conscious of what you enjoy about it, and how to achieve it. For me, for a while, it was getting that championship. Now it's time to see some new scenery, and beat some new faces.

Hope you get your groove back, this sport sucks when it sucks!! :shrug:

All good advice here...but I think it's SCCAs fault.

They need to find a way to provide chicks in bikinis! Perhaps a co-event with the beach volleyball association? Or increase our entries $5 and give it all to the winner of a wet T shirt contest. We have to be creative and keep the Toms in the mix!

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Originally Posted by dlg208

I thought about quitting also...

IT...

Think I'm going SRF so I won't get passed on the straights at my home track by "once a year" guys in cheater V-Dubs that sound like ITA cars.

Seriously...WTF!!!

(Pardon me... I'm pissed and have had way too much wine):mad1:

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That's one way to rationalize a performance level that doesn't satisfy you. I had that thought once about a car that came out to my home track and obliterated the record there. A few years of car and driver development later, if I am not under that time something is wrong.

I was feeling the same way back in '06 and decided to run an IT car so that I could run tracks that were closer to my house. In '07 I had to rearrange my priorities and I sat out the whole season with the thought that I would run both the IT car and the Vee in '08. Of course things never go as planned and after spending a large sum for new rear shocks and a new engine for the Vee (broke the crank), I used up my funds that were slated for the IT car.

Here's some free advice from an idiot: Don't own more than one racecar at a time as it severely dilutes your funds. Also, for those of you considering getting out of the hobby for a bit, DON'T SELL YOUR CAR. That makes it that much harder to get back into it down the road.

Tom, take some time off and do what you have to do and when you are good and ready you can jump back in the saddle and have some fun. +1 for the wet t-shirt contest.

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Originally Posted by lateapex911

All good advice here...but I think it's SCCAs fault.

They need to find a way to provide chicks in bikinis! Perhaps a co-event with the beach volleyball association? Or increase our entries $5 and give it all to the winner of a wet T shirt contest. We have to be creative and keep the Toms in the mix!

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I knew a driver/owner in Indianapolis many years ago who was sponsored by the 'gentlemens' club that he owned. What a pit crew!!!!!! Strange thing was he raced in the same class as the top cop in the Indiana State Police! :happy204:

Seriously, Tom, I feel for you. I got to thinking about leaving the sport when what I was doing was getting real old, and no one appreciated the time me and my wife were spending at the track. So I went over the wall to the dark side. If you think budgets are tight, your budget for one race weekend is almost bigger than my entire year! But I do what I can, and have as much fun as I can afford. And if need be, I'll walk away, knowing that I have done things that a lot of people just dream about. Hope to see you on the track before that time comes for either of us!

PS My car is a close to showroom stock as you can get (minus the interior......)

Some ramblings:

The best thing you can do for yourself is take a break. I was "forced" to take a break shortly after getting into club racing by my growing family and shrinking time/budget. I found that when I am able to return to the track I'm excited to be there whether it's behind the wheel or crewing. The time and money budgets forced me to sell my car (which I do not suggest!) but I sank those funds into my brothers car. So far, it's working out well. We now have a better car than either of us could have built on our own, and get to get better seat time in the long run. As another plus, there's only one trailer to own/maintain/store between the two of us ;)

My suggestion is that if you just enjoy the driving and being at the track, it doesn't have to be wheel to wheel for a trophy. HPDE's, PDX's etc are a blast and a little easier on the budget, with WAY more track time.

Have you tried renting the car out a little? It does a pretty good job of helping the fundage, although there is always the possibility of what happened above.

Otherwise, if you have the room to store the car, toss it up on jackstands and do some detailing, cleanup/organization over the next few months. Might help you get a little of that fire back at a non-race deadline pace ;)

Of course, I don't know about the rest of you guys, but according to my wife, I start to get testy once I've had a month off, and after two months without racing I'm already scheming about the next big race or development plan... even though we're in the depths of a Michigan December! :D

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Originally Posted by shwah

That's one way to rationalize a performance level that doesn't satisfy you. I had that thought once about a car that came out to my home track and obliterated the record there. A few years of car and driver development later, if I am not under that time something is wrong.

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We're not talking lap times here...

It's blatant & It's obvious and it's NOT exit speed!

You should EARN every pass...
(Otherwise buy your own trophies....Their only 5 bucks)

I've never pulled on anyone in my life...
Unless they were gushing blue smoke or were otherwise F'ed up.

I feel guilty about the 3rd I got today because the REAL 3rd place guy and the REAL 4th place guy took each other out.
I don't even know it I can put the wood up in my garage.

They were better drivers...
Not better car owners.

Tom, the bottom line is, if you're not having fun you need to take a break. I was in the same position after the 2006 season and decided to run one more season to see if the fun factor would still outweigh the hassle factor (lack of time and money) While I had a great season it was obvious to me that I needed to take a break from race car ownership. My passion for racing is still there but my passion for owning, maintaining and trailering a race car is gone forever :p Life situations change and stubbornly carrying on while running out of time, money and patience is not a smart way to go! I sold my car and was shocked not to miss it one iota. While I am sure I'll race against soon it'll be in a rental.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Cheers,
...Colin

Is it worth it?? I dunno but I do know that I'm addicted... right or wrong it's part of who I am and that's just the way it is:shrug:

as I have taken to saying: "I'll be driving something, somewhere..."

For anyone in the NE or great lakes:
Not quite the place for it but, since we are somewhat on the topic, If anyone has a car that is on ice that they would like to see maintained and raced, wants to take a break or needs someone to share the cost of racing with I would be interested in working something out that would benifit all involved for next year... feel free to PM me

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Originally Posted by dlg208

We're not talking lap times here...

It's blatant & It's obvious and it's NOT exit speed!

You should EARN every pass...
(Otherwise buy your own trophies....Their only 5 bucks)

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Perhaps you should define what you mean by "earn"? Building a good motor not part of that equation in your book?

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Originally Posted by dlg208

I've never pulled on anyone in my life...
Unless they were gushing blue smoke or were otherwise F'ed up.

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That would seem at odds with your first statement, to me anyway.

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Originally Posted by dlg208

I feel guilty about the 3rd I got today because the REAL 3rd place guy and the REAL 4th place guy took each other out.
I don't even know it I can put the wood up in my garage.

They were better drivers...
Not better car owners.

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That's a pretty sad statement of a lack of self-confidence, IMO. They're not that much better drivers if they can't avoid taking eachother out, now, are they? Seems to me that you certainly did earn that trophy, and if you can't appreciate it, then it's time to hand it over to the next guy in line.

Ever think you don't have any competition? Ask the guys behind you if they'd agree with that statement.

And would you say they're better car owners than you? They didn't manage to avoid damaging their cars; in my book, that means you don't care for your car. I avoid contact and damage to every extent possible - because I built and maintain my car, and I value the time I don't have to spend fixing it.

So perhaps you should reevaluate how you feel about your racing - seems to me like you're giving yourself much less respect than you deserve. Personally, as much as I respect the guys running up front in CRX's and VW's, I actually have more respect for the poor SOB out there running an oddball car, doing it the hard way - it shows a lot more committment and guts than buying the latest flavor of winner. BTDT - and it's finally paying off.

And please take this as the backwars compliment it's intended to be. IT racing is supposed to about having fun, not holding grudges. :eclipsee_steering:

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Originally Posted by dlg208

We're not talking lap times here...

It's blatant & It's obvious and it's NOT exit speed!

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IF you are suggesting that you are getting passed because the other guy is cheating and built an illegal motor, you have little choice, write the paper. It is our job as competitors to self police. If we don't, we have to accept the result. It is really that simple.

Now, if you are suggesting that the car is classed unfairly, (yours or his) then there are essentially two choices. Write a letter to the ITAC requesting a review. Keep in mind there are no competition adjustments...but if the numbers don't line up, an adjustment is in order. However, the numbers can only come so close, and there will be "misses". Some cars just won't make process power, others might make a bit more. If that's the case, and you see that all cars of a certain model are fast down the straights, then it's time to do some thinking about car choice.

Trust me, as the owner of an ITA RX-7, I understand the realities of cars that are outliers. That's life.

I'll give IT one more year and see what happens.

But I'm starting to think it's time to move on.

It's been my experience that nothing will happen of its own accord; you need to make it happen. So what do you think will change in one year, and how do you plan to make that happen?

You don't just win races by accident, it takes a lot of planning and hard work...

Sorry Dave. I hate to be the jerk here, but I have to call BS on this whole tangent.

'Cars that sound like ITA cars' is a total load of crap. So now the exhaust/muffler system that a competitor uses is grounds to label them a cheater?

Like I said, I was there before, but the harder I worked on my setup, the more I realized that I was just being out prepped and out driven. And I still am at times.

But let's cut to the chase - you, Vaughan and I were all in the same race last month. Your comments smack as an accusation of cheating to people you don't know, and have not approached in any way about such an idea. I'm hoping that's not what you mean, but it is how it came across. I mean I drive an ITB VW that has a loud exhaust and was able to follow Vaughan and Beran to a 1:47.1xx lap at M-O...

Since you are worried about ITB VWs, I can tell you that my motor is absolutely legal. It also has damn near every allowed modification (no crank scraper yet), and probably about a dozen (or more) hours of dyno time to get every bit that I can out of it. (and at that, take a look at the videos of 08 IT Fest - I still couldn't run with the other front runners down the straight).

There are 3 possible things going on here:
1. Other racers are driving that course better and/or have better car prep.
2. Other racers have cars that are classified more competitively - this is the part where you can write a letter to ask whether they (your car and the other car) are classed at the proper weight. Don't worry, that letter has already gone in for the A2 and A3 VWs - maybe write one for your car.
3. You race against blatant cheaters but don't use the rules available to fix that.

In every instance the way to fix it is through taking some sort of action on your own part, not tossing out unfounded accusations on the intenet.

I can’t tell you guys how much I appreciate all the advice that has been offered and can assure you it has not fallen on deaf ears. It was great to find out there were others who are or have been in my situation and what they did to get through.

At the insistence of my wife (a.k.a. babe in bikini) after seeing me spend most of Thursday night crying in my beer, I jumped on the Harley and rode out to Barber on Friday just to hang out anyway. Although it was pretty damn hot, it lifted my spirits just being there and gave me a chance to talk about what I can do differently to afford racing.

I will be taking a break from running races probably until next year but will look for test days nearby that won’t cost too much in time or money until then. Volunteering to help the Region will definitely continue and I’ll still come up to the track on race weekends to hang out. Doing enough races on the cheap to keep my license is my plans as well and I will definitely avoid racing in the summer as it is too damn hot not to be laying around a pool somewhere. ;)

Thanks again,

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Originally Posted by shwah

I was able to follow Vaughan and Beran to a 1:47.1xx lap at M-O...

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So you absolutely swear to freak'n god that you can turn 1:47.1 in a TOTALLY legal car?

Well...My apologies then.

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Originally Posted by dlg208

So you absolutely swear to freak'n god that you can turn 1:47.1 in a TOTALLY legal car?

Well...My apologies then.

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Honestly, you sound dubious....at best.

I bet Chris's car is not TOTALLY legal. I'd bet there is some turn signal lens that has a corner missing, or some screw that's stock and has fallen out...something that has been missed or overlooked.

But, I'd bet MY money that Chris and for that matter Vaughan are as close to 100% clean as you'll find.


(Oh, and an aside: I drive an RX-7. If you run large primary jets in the carb, they will sound ported as you drive around the paddock. Big time. And shoot flames (just for fun!). Am i cheating? Well, come back to my paddock spot with me, and allow me to swap carbs. (Takes me 5 minutes) Now listen as it purrs like a kitten. (Well, an annoying kitten!). Suddenly it's NOT ported. But hey, guess what!? Pssst!!.... the second carb?? ILLEGAL! Yup, it is clearly illegal.

So, your ears may be lying to you. )

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Originally Posted by dlg208

So you absolutely swear to freak'n god that you can turn 1:47.1 in a TOTALLY legal car?

Well...My apologies then.

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Or faster, yes. My car most definitely is legal, and I know I still left something on the table there, even running 1:46.9.

Apology accepted at this end - thank you. Now back to racin'!

I feel guilty about the 3rd I got today because the REAL 3rd place guy and the REAL 4th place guy took each other out.
I don't even know it I can put the wood up in my garage.

http://72.167.111.130/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif you sat back and watched the battle, I broke mine,he wrecked his missing me,wish he wouldn't of, i feel like crap about it......, you drove on... yea you earned it , hang it..... you think we are gonna stop and wait when you mess up, notta chance... hang it you earned it.... all will agree...

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Originally Posted by dlg208

So you absolutely swear to freak'n god that you can turn 1:47.1 in a TOTALLY legal car?

Well...My apologies then.

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Yes.

Accepted - whether you mean it or not. If you don't mean it, write paper next August - my racing budget could use the money:D

To Jake's point - Sunday afternoon tech put a tape measure to everyone's tire and front air dam, wherever we happened to park in the impound area. He told me mine was low, didn't tell me how much, and didn't want to measure it more accurately, just put a note in my log book. I knew it was right when I put it on, and also knew I drove off track 3 times over the weekend. Measured it when I got home in as raced condition - same tires at the same corners, same fuel load. LF was just legal. Middle was about 1/2" above legal. RF was about 1/4" below legal - so I am building a new spoiler now, and will try to make it less likely to end up lower if I hit a curb with it. So yeah - it is as legal as I know how to make it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dlg208

We're not talking lap times here...

It's blatant & It's obvious and it's NOT exit speed!

You should EARN every pass...
(Otherwise buy your own trophies....Their only 5 bucks)

I've never pulled on anyone in my life...
Unless they were gushing blue smoke or were otherwise F'ed up.

I feel guilty about the 3rd I got today because the REAL 3rd place guy and the REAL 4th place guy took each other out.
I don't even know it I can put the wood up in my garage.

They were better drivers...
Not better car owners.

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your car was better preped,,,,lol,, always is,, thats why you get the wood, and i got a shifter to carry around ......

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Originally Posted by lateapex911

But hey, guess what!? Pssst!!.... the second carb?? ILLEGAL! Yup, it is clearly illegal.

So, your ears may be lying to you. )

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It's a combination of things that makes me suspicious...Not just some loud exhaust
Pulling 6 car lengths in the back straight plus...
What sounds like a cam hooking up when they pass.

Exit speed and gears I understand but....Wow

Curious...Why do you carry around an illegal carb w/ you?:blink:

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Originally Posted by dlg208

Curious...Why do you carry around an illegal carb w/ you?:blink:

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Lot's of reasons. The illegal aspect is that the secondary opening method has been changed to a mechanical linkage. As it is on yours probably, and 95% of all the carbs in the world. Mazda used vacuum to do it. I borrowed the carb to check against mine when I ws having issues with it. When I first got mine, it wasn't reliable, so I used the borrowed one to drive the car around the paddock, load on the trailer and unload. A "winter carb" as it were. Now it's there for emergencies. (Thanks for the reminder, I have to give it back to the owner).

Oh...the performance is identical...no additional hp.

I got out when SCCA pissed off my kid at an autocross practice.
Yes, Practice day. We were late to registration , after helping another guy get unloaded. Now we run a 3/8mi. circle burner @ about $200per week. 28cars, 20 laps. way busy, and a great learning time for the kid , as he balances the car and traffic. There is the same feeling, watching your kid jam the race car around the outside from 21st starting spot to finish in the top three , as the turn one @ Sebring.
We are getting ready to go back to road racing, either with SCCA or NASA at the Local tracks.
Dont quit, put it aside for a while , IMHO. MM