Last Chance Enduro?drivers School?regional

The Glen Region's Competition Board is seeking input regarding possible changes to the October Last Chance Enduro. For a number of years now the Region has held a 3HOUR Enduro on the Saturday of the Last Chance Weekend. The other two events are a Driver School on Thursday Night-11am Saturday, (then the Enduro on Saturday) and a one day Regional on Sunday.
Increases in cost of operating the weekend are causing the Glen Region's Comp Board to look at changes for that weekend.

My question to you is: If you run the Enduro, what would you like see change to the event? Expand the Enduro's time? If so, how long? Drop the Enduro completely? If so, why?

Would you rather see a two day Regional instead of the Enduro? Or something else?

The Glen Region feels strongly in seeking out you input on this matter. Please reply to me (open or private) and let me know what you are thinking...

Thanks, --Ed...

In The Spirit Of The Sport,
I am posting this for Ed. The Days are locked in If we give up a Day we would not get it back. T Weaver

2 day regional and enduro
or
school & 2 day regional

I think it is not worth the drive for some for a 1 day regional, and I also think guys getting right out of the school should not have their First race be an Enduro.

I am not an enduro guy, and if your enduro is well supported fine, but I might consider the trip for a double regional.

As an Enduro guy, I am always looking for more seat time and more venues to be added to the race season. As for the Last Chance race? 4hrs? 5hrs? 6hrs? Even if the cost were increased (and it sounds like it will be from Ed's message - thanks Tom for posting it), I have been preaching that it is still the best bang for your buck when it comes to the level of racing that we do. I get more seat time just in the few enduros, than I would if I did all of the regional sprint races in the northeast only (and I do participate in both during the year).

The other angle to look at is the involvement that goes beyond the driver and maybe a friend or two that come for the sprint races. Enduros get more people involved in the event, and more involvement rolls over into greater membership numbers, and utlimately the better chance for survival of our club down the road.

Strategy comes into play with enduros more so that the sprint races. When do I stop for gas? How much gas do I take on at this stop? Driver change? How quickly can we do that and not go past the 5min mark? Do we have the right spares and tools in our pit box? Everyone I talk to about the enduros say they love it and want to do more. Comradery in the paddock and on the pit wall is enhanced during the enduro races. Stories told before, during, and after enduros last alot longer that those of the sprint races. Not to mention, you can also actually fill up a video tape with one race !!!!:D

But I also find that the drivers that prefer the sprint races outnumber the enduro drivers (and there are more classes of cars in the sprint races too - so that swells their numbers too.

It seems in years past that we have had no problem filling the field for the enduro. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end of the Enduro Series. Enduros are successfully run in every other part of the country. I think we can grow that interest up here too.

Of course the enduro series probably would not have come around if it weren't for the sprint races that we do all season, and I know there is a STRONG following for those. There were many opinions tossed about regarding the length of the Petit LeMans race at NHIS, what day to have it, what length it should be, how many would not come to NHIS if it were only a 1 day regional that weekend. All in all, the enduro happened (of course, shorter that I wanted) with a full field, regional races happened with capacity race groups (correct me if I'm wrong), and both sides of the fence went home happy. Since I got into racing in 2000, I've had a tough time calculating why we have 20 minute practices for 30minute races? Give us 10 minute practices and 40 minute races!! If I'm going to trailer my car 4hrs to a track, I'd like to get more than 1/2 hr of competition time.

Thanks for the inquiry about the Last Chance weekend. Like I said above, I hope this isn't the beginning of the end of enduros in the Northeast.

Regards,

Dave Austin (& Bob Smart)
Team Jagermeister
ITB #1

As s print guy with a sprint car, anything over 4 hours is not a consideration for me. A double regional with the two track configs is more appealing.

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Originally Posted by DaveITB1

Of course the enduro series probably would not have come around if it weren't for the sprint races that we do all season, and I know there is a STRONG following for those. There were many opinions tossed about regarding the length of the Petit LeMans race at NHIS, what day to have it, what length it should be, how many would not come to NHIS if it were only a 1 day regional that weekend. All in all, the enduro happened (of course, shorter that I wanted) with a full field, regional races happened with capacity race groups (correct me if I'm wrong), and both sides of the fence went home happy.

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The enduro was about 3/4 full (29 cars) and the regional was pretty well attended (because it was a NARRC single). Anything longer than 3-4 hours at NHIS is tough to take. WGI - different story.

Make the enduro the last event of the weekend. I'd hate to break in a Saturday enduro and miss a Sunday sprint. Is it possible to make finishing the first 1/2 hour of an enduro count as finishing a sprint?

I am not an enduro guy (although I would be if I had the time and a better car for it) but this has always been a priority race for our family. We love the event and I would say it is probably the funnest event we go to all season. Sure the ARRC and the IT fest have some great races, but all in all the teamwork and stratagy involved in an enduro is far more appealing to me, and the WG is just a blast to race. Shorter sprint races are to often cut short thus are less appealing to me, however with the Enduro at WG I know I will get my fix.

Raymond "Voting to keep the Endro" Blethen

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Originally Posted by kevin22

2 day regional and enduro
and I also think guys getting right out of the school should not have their First race be an Enduro.

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At that track, I think it's way better than throwing them to the wolves in a sprint race. In my experience, an enduro is a lot less "intense" than a sprint race. More people do them for fun as opposed to a sprint race. The track is so big and the field varies with so many classes that the cars get pretty spread out pretty quickly. While maybe not the best to perfect your racing "craft", I believe it's a great way to get track time for a new driver. Sprint races can be a little overwhelming for your first race, moreso than an enduro I think. Granted you have a lot of different classes which makes for large speed differences, but if you're the average guy coming out of your first school, you're going to be several seconds off the pace in your own class anyways so in either case you have to watch your mirrors for faster cars. I did that Enduro as my second ever race and thought it was perfect for getting your feet wet as a first race.

I know there's financial hardships, but schools are becoming more and more scarce so I think it's a bad idea to cancel the school.

As for making the enduro on Sunday, I think that will really put a nail in the coffin of the enduro. I think a lot of people do it because they're there for the sprint race on Sunday and figure it's a great way to learn the track and they're there already. If you put the sprint on Sat. and the enduro on Sunday, I think attendance is going to take a hit to the point it will eventually die.

I say you make the enduro 4 hours, maybe even 5.. At 3 hours it really is two 1.5 hour sprint races for each driver. And at that track, 1.5 hours does NOT seem that long. I remember thinking, wow, it's over already. While at NHIS, after that long I was just waiting for the car to run out of gas so I could pit. Making it 4+ hours does make for more strategy, and while car counts MAY not go up, it will most likely increase driver counts because you could have a 3 driver team now if you wanted. It would be a shame to lose that enduro, or moving it to Sunday and pretty much killing it. It's a great event and great way to learn that track.

That enduro event is such a fun event. I had a blast at that event and would love to do it again.

just my .02, coming from a driver who not that long ago got his comp license and has done more enduros than sprint races. neither of which is that many, but just saying.

s

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Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt

The enduro was about 3/4 full (29 cars) and the regional was pretty well attended (because it was a NARRC single). Anything longer than 3-4 hours at NHIS is tough to take. WGI - different story.

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is it safe to assume that 29 cars can also been views as @58-65 drivers? We can't just look at the car numbers alone when calculating enduro racers.

I've looked at last years results for the Glen Region's events.

Last year 57 cars took the green flag for the enduro and 127 for the sprints.

For the July Sprints, 209 took the green.

How many more entry fees are needed to make the school/enduro/sprint weekend viable?

First I'll presume you want to keep the school.

This is a very fun weekend at the end of the season. Many might ask for a longer enduro, but it may mean that it becomes too much of a hassle for teams with drivers who haven't run more than 45 minutes at a time. I personally would like to see it run 4 hours and leave the 2 mandatory stops.

A double restricted regional might work if only some race groups were doubled. Say IT, SM, SRF and one other of the core groups entering the sprints. Put the IT and SM groups at opposite ends of the schedule to allow double dipping.

I'd like to run a 4 to 5 hr race.

Don't take the school away. If you do, then I will have no goal to get the car done, and I will have to wait till spring to take a school.

But I do understand that some have to be sacrifices for the greater good, so you guys do what you need to do.

That is all for me, because this is the only horse I have in this race.

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Originally Posted by DaveITB1

is it safe to assume that 29 cars can also been views as @58-65 drivers? We can't just look at the car numbers alone when calculating enduro racers.

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$450 per car assuming 2 drivers at NHIS. That's only $13K in revenue.

That's the crux of the question - revenue. Do you go longer and take up a whole day for so little revenue?

The enduro at WGI is certainly part of the draw...pump it to 4 hours and do something cool with the sprint race to make that more exciting...

Thanks for Input: let me give you some additional Info. The Drivers school is assured so help fill it Up! Keep in mind that licensed drivers can enter the school for additional track time. The Contracts with WGI have been signed and deposits made. Here are some additional facts. It is very difficult to change dates if not impossible. The track rental rates have increased. Then the unexpected happens :shrug: Last Year WGI calls monday eve before the race and informs us No temporary Glen Club do you want to rent a tent ? Well its October(also remembering the sleet/snow of a past year) so Yes $3,000 added to cost and as it turned out would not have needed. Thanks Dave for checking the numbers for the enduro I think we can start close to 70 cars , The Sunday regional had approx 175 entrys (good Number) unfortunately we ended up refunding between 40-45 i'm told a higher than usually # Why? not sure some broke in the enduro, 2 or 3 had problems on the way but thats all part of the game/risk any region takes.
So I guess I would favor trying to get the Enduro to 4 hrs from reading various posting my take is at 4 hours we can pull some sprint types that might feel 4 hours with 2 other drivers would not break the bank . The 6 to 12 hour events are serious events more for well funded teams or operations with rentals. Not sure how to make the Regional more attractive dave has some suggestions that may help so cars can "crossover" thus boosting paid entrys. Will pass some other suggestions along 3 minute mandatory pit stops instead of 5 and allowing the use of fuel rigs. We are not certain how the construction of the new media center will effect operations. The old tower is gone and thus more space will be available for pits. because of the media center being built the replacement of the Glen will be delayed until 2009.
Please keep the input coming as all input is being gathered!
Here this should start some discussion How about gas cards instead of trophies :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by tdw6974

Will pass some other suggestions along 3 minute mandatory pit stops instead of 5 and allowing the use of fuel rigs. :rolleyes:

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Keep the 5 minute stop time. Slow re-fueling is safer for the majority of what are usually 'pickup' teams. Please do not allow fuel rigs unless the stop time is long enough not to give them an advantage over cans. That equipment is really for folks running serious enduro events over the course of a season. Keep it relaxed and fun for the teams and they will come. Back in the day I headed up a team for 6 'Longest Days' and we could do 4 tires and fuel in under 3 minutes, but we practiced stops for quite a while to get those dance steps down.

DZ

Had Comp Board meeting this PM And the Following was decided. Driver School will continue. The Enduro will remain with Following Changes(times may need to be adjusted slightly) Enduro wil be 4 Hours Practice/Qualifying will be from 11:00am to Noon, Race will Start at 1:00 Pm end at 5 Pm. 2 mandatory pit stops: 2 Minutes Each Keeping in line with the Nescca Enduro rules. 2 Drivers required, and no fuel rigs. The Sunday event will remain a Single regional event for the opportunity to Run Watkins Glen. This should help the School Drivers that don't want to dive right into a Enduro and but still get one race under their belt. Registration will be open approx 16 hours at various times. At least this will allow you to get the event in your race calendars!!!:smilie_pokal:

:OLA::OLA:

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

:OLA::OLA:

Come on boys and girls. Let's all get out and promote this, and all enduros, to fill the grid. It is, and can be fun for the whole family.

Once again, thanks for reaching out to us for our input and insight. I noticed that the Spec Miata site also had many comments on the topic too. This was an excellent thread.

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Originally Posted by tdw6974

The Sunday regional had approx 175 entrys (good Number) unfortunately we ended up refunding between 40-45 i'm told a higher than usually # Why? not sure some broke in the enduro, 2 or 3 had problems on the way but thats all part of the game/risk any region takes.

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Last year unfourtunatly weather was the detrement of the event. Fog rolled in overnight not allowing the event to even start until close to noon time. We had the rigs loaded and we were starting the cars to load them in the trailer when we heard "cars for racegroup 1 please go to the grid" WE debated for 2 minutes on if we wanted to run the shortened race and practice. We decided to go for it changed and flew over to grid in time for the 1 minute warning.

Stephen

PS: Great event, lot's of fun. AS I get older and wiser (and watch the rolex series) I have become very interested in Enduros. By far cheaper than sprint races (With a reliable less maint. car... cheaper based on entries and lap per lap comparisons) I alos truely enjoy the strategy and I think it allows the crew to be more involved.

Basically this would be to get people exposed and want to enter the enduros + draw more revenue to the region.

scenario based on a 2 day weekend:
Saturday
Normal regional classes and schedule with qualifying in the AM and a Race in the afternoon
Sunday
Run an AM race for all normal regional groups based on finishing position in Saturdays Races.
Run the enduro Sunday afternoon. using the Sunday AM race times as your qualifying time for Sunday afternoon. Any body that only wants to Run the Enduro can run in Sunday AM's race starting from last... first come first served!

Have an entry fee for the double (Saturday race and Sunday AM Race)
Have another entry fee )that Adds to the double entry fee) $150 for the first driver in an enduro and $100 per additional driver in the enduro

Then one last entry fee for the Enduro only fans that will run from last in the Sunday AM race and the enduro in the afternoon. $200 for the first driver and $100 for each additional driver.

Just an idea to generate some extra revenues and possilbe entice some sprint drivers to try it out.
Stephen

Glad to hear the school will remain. I am planning on this one as my second.