Why don't you also race NASA TX?

Curious as to why you don't also race NASA in TX? There are no more 2 day weekends in the SOWDIV for regional cars until September. That's right, from now until September it's all 1 day race weekends.

There were 75 cars that competed in at least one IT race last year in the SOWDIV. If you aren't running 1 day weekends, why don't you race NASA TX?

NASA has 6 events this year at MSRH, MSRC, TWS, Hallett, EC. Each weekend consists of usually 1 practice, 2 qualifiers and 3-4 races. Run your IT car as is with only an additional required safety mod of a right side restraint (net or seat bolster). Cost is generally $325 and both Mazda and Hankook offer up contingency.

I don't get it. What is holding you back? The SRX7 guys have a huge showing, 10+ cars usually and mostly race NASA. What's up with the IT group?

Why start racing with NASA when they require a 38.1 HNR in 3 months? My NASA comp licence application has been staring at me for 2 months now as they're finally running a race @ my local track. One month later they're requiring a 38.1 compliant device so I won't be able to run w/them again w/ my HNR of choice... so why even join?

I hear you, Scott. I was in the same predicament in December, with the license renewal form pinned to the bulletin board staring me in the face for two months. Let's chat about what it takes to race NASA this year:

- SFI- or FIA-approved driving suit (SCCA does not yet require this)
- FIA-approved seats must be five years or newer, or you require a seat back brace (ditto). I refuse to race with a steel tube pointing at my spine, and our seat is manufactured January 2002.
- SFI-approved HNR
- Right side window net (ditto).
- Did I miss anything?

I went ahead and renewed in January, as a friend offered to let me use a HANS for select NASA events. Then, this seat thing hit us in the face (I'd never noticed that in the NASA rules before). Frankly, it's only, what?, $60? But, in the end, I may not even use it...as I've noted before, I think NASA has well and truly stepped right into it, at least until SCCA "catches up" (so to speak)...

I did not realize NASA had all those requirements and had considering racing with them to take advantage of weekends at Road Atlanta in addition to what SCCA alreadys does and save on travel costs at the same time. I can buy a lot a fuel for the price of the required equipment so I'll skip it for now and spend my money elsewhere.

Guys, I appreciate your response but the question was directed at those in the SOWDIV/TX. We don't have the luxury of 2 day race weekends like most of you. Here in the SOWDIV, our 2007- 2008 schedule (season starts after Runoffs) consisted of a R/R in Nov and Jan and a R/RR in early Feb. Our next R/R is in September, the rest of the events are R/N or N/N. None of us like to tow for a one day race weekend and the regional cars in the SOWDIV are a bit frustrated. I've been to a meeting, SOWDIV is a national car oriented division and the attitude is get a national car if you want to race here.. it's evident in the schedule.

Hence the question about NASA in TX.

Since you responded on why you don't race and listed your perception of the negatives, I'll respond.

The reasons you listed are all safety related, if you don't like the additional safety requirements don't race NASA. This is not the thread to debate the SFI merits, several other theads for that. For all those who say NASA is not as safety concious as SCCA, well I think that's obvious it's simply not true.

Furthermore, the SFI HNR is proposed to go into effect in June 2008. No right side net is required, a net OR seat bolster is required. You can bet SCCA follows with similiar rules in the future. A new FIA seat starts at $299 - Momo Start or keep your seat brack brace. It's my understanding FIA says the seat is good for 5 years and NASA follows that rule. According to the GCR, SCCA requires SFI or FIA suit so I don't understand what Greg is referring to. "All suits shall bear an SFI 3.2A/1 or higher certification label or FIA 8856-2000 homologation."

With NASA in TX....

More Sessions (6-7 per weekend)
More Races (3-4 per weekend)
More regional car weekends (6 vs. 4 for SCCA)
More Tracks (5 vs. the 3 SCCA provides for regional cars)
Contingency - Mazdaspeed, Hankook, Toyo, etc... at the regional level.
Costs - entry fee less than SCCA
NASA Championships - contingency like the runoffs but without the national car.

All of the SRX7 guys migrated over. Many of the SM cars have as well (20+). A NASA weekend has just as many if not more entrants than an SCCA regional race.

I'm not advocating leaving SCCA, I still race SCCA and just did 3 weeks ago. I didn't want this to get into a why which organization is better, simply my question was and still is....

Why do the SOWDIV IT cars not run NASA?

Asking for input then telling people why their input is incorrect...?

Okaaay.

OR you could consider that some - arguably ALL - of the concerns voiced here translate to any NASA region.

Kirk (who's running a NASA event in a couple weeks)

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Originally Posted by Knestis

Asking for input then telling people why their input is incorrect...?

Okaaay.

OR you could consider that some - arguably ALL - of the concerns voiced here translate to any NASA region.

Kirk (who's running a NASA event in a couple weeks)

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The question was "Curious as to why you don't also race NASA in TX?" and the answers were why they don't race NASA in their region. Where did I say the input was incorrect? I responded to the input that needed clarification and expanded on what I saw as reasons to race NASA in TX. SCCA is different in every region. NASA is different in every region. While their may be some across the board opinions there are also very region specific reasons. This was intended to be a region specific thread as posted as such. I respect those opinions not to race in those regions for the reasons mentioned, but those may not reflect the reasons for our region. We dont' have the SCCA race days the rest of you get.

Since it's turned into a national thread, do continue. I hope we can see some SOWDIV members post.

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Originally Posted by mbuskuhl

...You can bet SCCA follows with similiar rules in the future...

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You're on. How much?

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Originally Posted by mbuskuhl

This was intended to be a region specific thread as posted as such.

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Off topic, but relevant - I've noticed that when I come to the new IT.com home page I get a listing of recent threads, but they are not identified as to which forum they're posted in. In my case I don't usually care; if I see a topic that looks interesting I click on it, without looking to see which sub-forum it's from. It could very well be that the first few responders didn't realize this was a regional question either. Just though I would point that out.

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Originally Posted by gsbaker

You're on. How much?

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:lol:Should have known this was coming. Below is the quote in complete context, I'll put up $50 SCCA has a similar - meaning some type of HNR rule (not necessarily SFI specific) or right side impact restraint. We'll give it 12 months. If you thought I'm taking the SFI bet, nope. I would have said "same rules in the future".


"Furthermore, the SFI HNR is proposed to go into effect in June 2008. No right side net is required, a net OR seat bolster is required. You can bet SCCA follows with similiar rules in the future"

Mark,
TI think besides loyalty to SCCA that some veterans have, people just don't understand or like the PT points system of classing cars. SM & SRX7 work because they are straight crossover. In IT it sort of seems to be all over the place as where A, B, C, S, R, & E cars fit. Over time that may change, but right now cars in SCCA ITA in this region might be running in NASA PT classes F, E, & D. The IT classes are already pretty thin down here so crosssing over and having more classes makes it even smaller as far a class fields. I think IT Hondas have their own classes too. Some sort of simple crossover in this part of the country would have worked better in my opinion. Maybe things will pick up in NASA over time. The events have been run well and the people in charge have always been great.

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Originally Posted by mbuskuhl

:lol:I'll put up $50 SCCA has a similar - meaning some type of HNR rule (not necessarily SFI specific) or right side impact restraint. We'll give it 12 months.

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:D

"Some type"? Sure, that's possible so, no bet. I'll bet it's not an SFI-only mandate, though.

$50 is a bit light, so how about this: If SCCA implements within the next 12 months an SFI-only HNR mandate, ISAAC buys the beer at the 2009 ARRC? If it does not, NASA buys the beer at the 2009 ARRC.

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Originally Posted by mbuskuhl

NASA is different in every region.

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In what way and why?

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Originally Posted by gsbaker

If SCCA implements within the next 12 months an SFI-only HNR mandate, ISAAC buys the beer at the 2009 ARRC? If it does not, NASA buys the beer at the 2009 ARRC.

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Whoever ends up buying what I wanna know is who gets to drink all this beer? :birra:

FWIIW, I was talking to the race chair for the Lone Star region May R/N at TWS and put the bug in his ear to do a RR on Sunday. It may be a grid as you finished on Saturday race but it would be a second race. I'm going to bring it up again at the BOD meeting Wednesday and see if I can get a commitment on it. Let you know.

Mac - that's what I was looking for, thanks for your feedback. You have no excuse not to come out to Cresson in March :D, after all your signature calls the place home and I know you car is out there. It's your only shot to race Cresson with the SCCA skipping that track this year.

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Originally Posted by gsbaker

:D

"Some type"? Sure, that's possible so, no bet. I'll bet it's not an SFI-only mandate, though.

$50 is a bit light, so how about this: If SCCA implements within the next 12 months an SFI-only HNR mandate, ISAAC buys the beer at the 2009 ARRC? If it does not, NASA buys the beer at the 2009 ARRC.

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I'll bet with you Greg that SCCA does not do the SFI, I agree with that. The NASA thing is planned and not in effect, we'll know what happens in a few months. If I knew I was going to the ARRC I'd take you up on the bet, but it's not on my schedule at the moment. If I do make it, there is round for all on me either way.

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Originally Posted by tom_sprecher

In what way and why?

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Tom, NASA is different in every region because each region is owned by individuals, similar to a franchise. I understand some of you don't even really have NASA as an option in your part of the country. In some parts NASA is heavy, others light...both on types of cars and participation. Some regions are HPDE and TT heavy while others offer up much more door to door racing. Just as the SCCA is different in every region, most of you would laugh at our IT car counts in the SOWDIV. I listed how NASA TX is different than SCCA regional racing in the SOWDIV a few posts earlier. Mac headed out of the division to race last year, not sure of his plans this year but when you have to leave the division to race, that should signify there is an issue.

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Originally Posted by jhooten

FWIIW, I was talking to the race chair for the Lone Star region May R/N at TWS and put the bug in his ear to do a RR on Sunday. It may be a grid as you finished on Saturday race but it would be a second race. I'm going to bring it up again at the BOD meeting Wednesday and see if I can get a commitment on it. Let you know.

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Jerry, I heard that rumor this past weekend from an SCCA guy while I was at a NASA race. I think it's up to our Exec. Steward and from what I've been told he won't approve it. We'll see. You are in the SOWDIV, I'm curious why you do not race NASA?

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Originally Posted by mbuskuhl

"Furthermore, the SFI HNR is proposed to go into effect in June 2008. No right side net is required, a net OR seat bolster is required. You can bet SCCA follows with similiar rules in the future"

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Do you mean something is required, it can be a net or seat bolsters?

Additionally, The right side protection rule is independent of H&R devices.

I'm sure you understand this, just the wording seemd confusing to me.

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Originally Posted by Grumpy

Do you mean something is required, it can be a net or seat bolsters?

Additionally, The right side protection rule is independent of H&R devices.

I'm sure you understand this, just the wording seemd confusing to me.

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Yes, a right side net or seat bolster is required, this went into effect June 2007. Correct, the proposed SFI HNR rule coming into effect June 2008 is in addition to the right side impact rule.

15.17.8 Head and Neck Restraint
Use of a head and neck restraint system or device, carrying an SFI 38.1 certification, is mandatory for all drivers as of June 2, 2008. References and information can be found in “Appendix D,” section #29.0 of the CCR.

15.17.9 Head Restraint – Side Impact
All vehicles must be outfitted with a right-side impact head restraint system. A seat with a “bolster” to keep the head from moving to the right side in an impact is acceptable. A side-impact head-net restraint system, such as the Racetech RTViperRP is also acceptable. Note- all side-impact head-net restraint systems must have a quick-release mechanism to aid the driver in case of a necessary egress via the passenger side.


Here is something interesting.... SCCA Pro Racing

2.10.10: RIGHT SIDE HEAD NET – A right side restraining net, installed per PRR\ Appendix N, must be in place whenever the vehicle is being operated on the racing circuit. Plastic buckles and elastic straps are not acceptable.

2.10.3: HEAD AND NECK RESTRAINT – All drivers shall use an SCCA Pro Racing approved head & neck restraint listed in Appendix J.

J.1: HEAD AND NECK RESTRAINT
The use of an approved head and neck restraint device may be required in a series, an is highly recommended for all drivers even if it is not required in a particular series. As of 1/1/2005, the head and neck restraint systems approved by SCCA Pro Racing will meet SFI spec 38.1. Additional systems may be approved by the series TECHNICAL MANAGER as they become certified by SFI, or the FIA.

HANS, Hutchens 2, R3, Moto R


My point is SCCA Pro Racing has the additional safety rules, NASA is in the middle of putting in new safety rules, SCCA Club one could only assume is just behind the corner. If the safety rules of NASA are holding you back, I'm not sure how long that is going to be an issue.

Before this is taken the wrong way, I FULLY SUPPORT the ISAAC being an approved HNR device and wish it was. Please don't turn this into an SFI debate.

Mark,

Laziness. Actually I have been spending alot of time just keeping the car running enough to get enough SCCA races in to renew my license. I think I have the reliability issues resolved now. So, I'll look at installling a right side net while I'm putting the fire system in.

The august TWS 2.9 clockwise looks interesting, very interesting.


Just found another reason while reading the PT rules. MY CAR IS NOT CLASSED. Oldest Supra listed is the 88.

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Originally Posted by mbuskuhl

Jerry, I heard that rumor this past weekend from an SCCA guy while I was at a NASA race. I think it's up to our Exec. Steward and from what I've been told he won't approve it. We'll see.

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Update,

The Texas region Feb R/N/RR at TWS was approved by the Exec Stew. The precident has been set. Lone Star is requesting sanction numbers for a R/N/RR for the May weekend and the schedule is being revised. If it is not a double race weekend for IT it is not for lack of trying on the part of the leadership of Lone Star.

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Originally Posted by jhooten

Update,

The Texas region Feb R/N/RR at TWS was approved by the Exec Stew. The precident has been set. Lone Star is requesting sanction numbers for a R/N/RR for the May weekend and the schedule is being revised. If it is not a double race weekend for IT it is not for lack of trying on the part of the leadership of Lone Star.

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Excellent.

Mac, Jerry and any other SOWDIV IT cars should know the contingency is really picking up over here. Hoosier is putting up 2 tires for a win and 1 tire for a 2nd - PER RACE! How'd you like almost $1000 in tires for the weekend? It's like National level contingency. Hankook pays $200 for a win if you want to go with them and of course Mazdaspeed, $1000 at year end is up for grabs in each class. We already have more than enough entrants required in PTE and PTC, need the other PT classes to fill some.

https://www.hoosiertire.com/NASAawdg.htm

Edit: Got confirmation from Hoosier they will do payouts for days with multiple races. Win both races Saturday and the Sunday race, get 6 free tires!