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I dont know if this has been discussed yet but since the middle of last year it seems that for every race there is only one qualifying/practice session instead of two. I dont like this for several reasons. !. less seat time, 2. no opportunity to test changes, adjustments and repairs before the race. 3, less seat time!
We run in Cen Div, is this going to be standard practice?
A lot of factors are involved, chief among them are car counts and carnage.
Most good regions do offer additional sessions where time is passing quickly because of low car counts and clean sessions.
We had multiple sessions at each of our events at Nelson this year.
Cheers.
That's the norm up in the North East....... At Pocono we only got one 12 minute qualifying session and the race.
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That's the norm up in the North East....... At Pocono we only got one 12 minute qualifying session and the race.
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But that is because the events have changed over the years to be a two day double race weekend instead of two day single race weekend. The norm has always been 2 sessions a day. If the event is a single race, double day generally you will see 2 practice/qualifying sessions a practice/hardship then a race. personally I like the double race format better with one practice/qualifing and one race per day.
IMO, I'd much rather the time be dedicated to more racing time than qual. / practice time. As it's been told to me on many occassions, here's your opportunity to use some racecraft in your qualifying efforts. If you're looking for more testing time, a HPDE and/or Test & Tune session is a great place to get that done. Again, that's just my opinion.
Be happy if you can get a P/Q for each race. Check out our race this weekend:
$295 for both days prior to June 2 - Regional AND National
$335 for both day after June 2 - Regional AND National
What this gets you:
National: Saturday 20 min P/Q and 13 lap race. Sunday 25 min P/Q and 19 lap race
Regional: Saturday 20 min P/Q and 13 lap race. Sunday 13 lap race.
That's right. Not a typo. Same pricing but much less time for the regional guys. I asked but got no answers on why. I will not be attending, I'll wait to 2 weeks and play NASA.
Mark,
When did the add the sunday P&Q? Wasn't in my copy of the schedule.
And I won't be there this weekend, death in the family (in-law side). Good luck.
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IMO, I'd much rather the time be dedicated to more racing time than qual. / practice time. As it's been told to me on many occassions, here's your opportunity to use some racecraft in your qualifying efforts. If you're looking for more testing time, a HPDE and/or Test & Tune session is a great place to get that done. Again, that's just my opinion. [/b]
Test days are for testing. Race days are for RACING. I want more RACE time. THAT is where the SCCA provides value to me. I can lap and test at any track for way less than SCCA charges me...but I can't get the quality of racing they provide anywhere.
Mike,
As others have indicated, the issue is trying to cram a ton of track time into a limited schedule. Double events have time for a qualifying session and a race each day. That's it. Keep in mind that at Blackhawk, we are restricted to certain hour as far as running race engines (8:00am to 6:00pm). With the worker break, that gives you about 4 hours in the morning and 5 hours in the afternoon.
Two-day single events like restricted regionals would typically have a practice & qualifying session on saturday and the race on Sunday.
BTW - The season ending regional event at Blackhawk in late october is traditional a two day single event with lots of track time and the races are longer too. It usually has one of the lowest entry fees as well. It's a fun event to finish out the season.
I have been to double weekends that had 2 sessions and a race each day, don't remember what was being given up to make that work - maybe fewer groups.
It is nice because I don't always need a test day for true setup testing (sometimes absolutely do need, but once set up well, tend to leave it alone for a while), but am always trying to cycle tire and brake pad breakin into my sessions.
It would be nice if we had a test day available preceding all of the race weekends so that we can at least get the breakin stuff done in the same tow trip.
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Mark,
When did the add the sunday P&Q? Wasn't in my copy of the schedule.
And I won't be there this weekend, death in the family (in-law side). Good luck.
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Jerry,
They did not add a Sun P/Q for Regional on any schedule nor have I heard such a rumor. Check again at what I wrote, you might have seen the Sun P/Q for National as I listed National and Regional schedules.
I won't be there this weekend either, instead I opted to drop off my car a week ago with Team MER for some tuning which would put me out for this weekend. I'm going to have fun with NASA at MSRH in 2 weeks. You should come out if you get a chance. Should be a practice, qualifying, race 1, race 2 all on Sat and then a p/q and race 3 Sunday - that's 6 sessions and for about $300. It's not too late, I bet they would work to accommodate even if you are not a member and licensed with them already. It's quick to get setup since you have the SCCA license. I could use some competition! The SRX7's will be out in full force but not much IT.
Sorry to hear on your loss.
-Mark
And back to the thread... yes, more racing time and less P/Q. P/Q is done on Fridays for me, tough with work and the extra expenses but good track time to get things worked out.
Amen, I want RACE time!!! Hell, home track (Waterford) we only get one 5-lap practice/qual session all weekend!!! But we get 3 races! What would you rather have??
Wow, I had no idea the rest of the country was so short on track time during a race weekend.
At an RMDiv regional we have two 20 (or so) minute P/Q sessions in the morning, then a 15-20 lap race after lunch. The races may be fewer laps, or more, depending on how long the track is, but the time is generally around 25 minutes. I figure on a hour a day of track time.
The flip side of that is that if we get 70 cars for a regional, that's a big turnout.
Mark,
That is what happens with only about 10 hours of sleep over a 5 day stretch.
The more track time the better, but if I have to make a decision, make it during a race rather than a practice session. If I really feel like I need the practice, I try to make a test day prior to the weekend. With each practice session, you actually decrease quality track time by about 10 minutes as you have to add such things as track cleanup and 5 minute warnings to the allotted time. I'd rather have a longer qualifying session than add a 10 minute practice session to the schedule.
When it comes to track time/dollar of registration fees...there are so many variables that go into that calculation that it becomes mind boggling. Different tracks may charge different rental fees to different organizations at different times for different reasons. The bottom line is that the region has to make money or they won't do it anymore. If you feel it's too expensive for your dollar to go locally, then factor in your expenses to go to a "cheaper" race or race organization.
Or, of course, rather than race, we could all collect stamps.
Well at the last Sebring event I went to on the 2nd and 3rd the race track offered a practice day, 200.00 per car for practice. It had nothing to do with the sanction body holding the event. Then we had qualifying Saturday, Race Saturday, same on Sunday (double event).
When I got to the track late day on Friday ( Sebring pay to practice day) I asked a few guys I saw at Daytona about practice day, they say they got 30 minutes track time in. I don't think that was worth it.
I agree that more race time is better, gives others a chance to win. :smilie_pokal:
I would like a three race deal, taht would be nice, 20 minutes of qualifying then race first race, take the times from the first race and line cars up for secondrace based on first race transponder times, run second race and take times based on second run to line up for third. Hell yeah there's an idea. Three races one practice... Gives more than one person chance to win, everybody has fun and you can always kick back after race and say, lets make these changes for the next run.
I like it, will it happen, probably not...
Time to start a revolution! :023:
We've done this here in Texas. We call it an extended regional. One practice/qualifying session, two qualifying races, and a final points race. Groups that hold their own points championships choose to use one of the qualifying races as points or count the points race as double. One year they even let us give out double points for the points race. It's very cheap because it's a single sanction instead of a double sanction.Quote:
I would like a three race deal, taht would be nice, 20 minutes of qualifying then race first race, take the times from the first race and line cars up for secondrace based on first race transponder times, run second race and take times based on second run to line up for third. Hell yeah there's an idea. Three races one practice... Gives more than one person chance to win, everybody has fun and you can always kick back after race and say, lets make these changes for the next run.
I like it, will it happen, probably not...
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Some people didn't like it because you don't have a second qualifier but I think most people liked it...with the biggest issue being that of divisional points (they wanted double points every time).
Yea, we all want more track time; no big news there. But, as one of the people who puts the schedule together here in Memphis, I want some of you savants to show me how to cram P, Q, and races for 6 groups + a lunch break for the workers + continencies in 1 day and have the track cleared by 5. Please! :blink:
Yes definitly not a lot of daylight is it. Don't get me wrong, all those that organize these events, your awsome and I have a lot of respect. There isn't a driver here that isn't thankful for that.
I suppose the only way we could pull off more race time is to run more races in Alaska during the constant daylight season. :snow_cool:
There are so many groups running each weekend it is in fact very difficult to get everything done in the time alotted.
That's the point...throw out that practice session, and extend the race by a ton. 6 groups is nothing. Try it with 8 like here in the NE.Quote:
Yea, we all want more track time; no big news there. But, as one of the people who puts the schedule together here in Memphis, I want some of you savants to show me how to cram P, Q, and races for 6 groups + a lunch break for the workers + continencies in 1 day and have the track cleared by 5. Please! :blink: [/b]
Our event at Mid-Ohio Aug 11th-12th has plenty of seat time. 2.5 hours worth for the weekend. But to do that we have had to limit the event to 10 classes in 5 race groups. Which is the I.T. classes and SRF, SM, TCC
30 minute qualifying session Sat. morning 25 lap/ 45 minute race sat. afternoon. Fastest lap sets grid for 17 lap/ 30 minute qualifying race Sunday morning. Finishing position sets grid for Sunday afternoon 23 lap/ 45 minute race.
I can't wait!
I agree on maximizing race time and keeping testing on test days....but test days are also a ton easier personally when they're the day before a regional weekend, and a full test day at that to maximize my testing. I've heard the same from fellow racers, especially considering towing time.
That said, what happened to the NHIS test day schedule this year? Is it just me, or were a lot of 2006 test days the day before the regional, and cars all day? I.e. not split with bikes. Looking at the schedule there's no alignment (for the remainder of the season at least), and the majority are only half days. Flog me if this has been discussed before.
Chris
A test day would be great but time is an issue. In Cen Div we have been running 2 P/Q sessions for every race for years. I use that time to check small adjustments in tire pressure and alingment setup. Also it gives an opportunity to heat cycle tires. I have a whole new suspension setup and new tires as well for this weekend at Road America. I wont have an opportunity to make an adjustment and check to see how affective it was prior to the race.
Just whining a little. :D
Well Mike, for what it's worth, I think that half or more of the ITB field will be doing some amount of sorting during sessions that count. It sure would have helped me to have a test day available on Friday. I will be breaking in my motor, brake pads and possibly tires during Saturdays qualifying session.
The way the scheduling is this year, it will be harder than I planned to move over to 13" wheels. At this point I will either throw away all but the last lap of my qualifying sessions, or find the time to go to an open track day. My own issue with that is that I burned most of my vacation days with the new baby in Feb/Mar, and most of the days near here are weekdays.
Heck - I may go and do the 1 hour IT race at Autobahn on July 14, and use the race as a tire/brake bedding session.....do 5-10 laps pull in change tires and/or brakes or rotors and get some more sets ready to use. At $150 with a 25min qualify and 60min race, it is a good bang for the buck event for track time, and close to home.
Hey, where is that 1 hour at Autobahn?
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