Juan Pablo's "pass" on Pruett last weekend

So who watched the Busch race from Mexico city last weekend (they had replay on in the lunch room today, which made me think of it)? Yeah, I know, it's NASCAR minor league, but it was a road course and a lot of road race guys were driving. Anyways, those who watched it what did you think of Juan's pass (if you could even call it that) on Pruett at the end of the race? I didn't think he was anywhere near close enough to try a move. I could see if he was along side, but he hit him in the rear. JPM's comment was "he went wide". Well, yea, that was the line. Did he think Pruett was just going to give it to him?

I've only been racing for a couple years, but I thought it was a pretty rookie move. I'm guessing if that was Grand Am he would've at least gotten a drive through. It was NASCAR though, so I guess it's OK. What did you more experienced guys think?

Maybe Juan has found his home.

David

"Rookie mistake"???

No, it was a mugging, plain and simple, and Pruett should take his "teammate" out back and....

I imagine Ganassi was none too happy.

JPM is aggresive, and sometimes thats great, and after the preceding laps, it was obvious he had the car for the win. But he needed patience. Pruetts a fairly clean driver, he would have let JPM by if JPM truly had the speed. It's too bad Pruetts not in Nextel Cup, although it's hard to pay back a team mate.

(and yes, I know some feel JPM had the corner, based on oval track conventions, but they were roadracing, and in roadracing you need to earn the corner. JPM hadn't come close to earing the corner)

notable others have done it........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0DEgwLLPXg

Actually, I don't think it was a mugging. I think JPM just plain screwed up. As I watched the replays, there is noticable tire smoke from where he locks up the front tires at the last moment before hitting Pruett. I think JPM was "playing" with him by looking inside, but never intended to make the pass and then he plain screwed up his braking and the hit was unintentional. I think JPM would rather use the "he was wide" line and take the flak for punting Pruett rather than admit he screwed up.

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"Rookie mistake"???

No, it was a mugging, plain and simple, and Pruett should take his "teammate" out back and....

I imagine Ganassi was none too happy.

JPM is aggresive, and sometimes thats great, and after the preceding laps, it was obvious he had the car for the win. But he needed patience. Pruetts a fairly clean driver, he would have let JPM by if JPM truly had the speed. It's too bad Pruetts not in Nextel Cup, although it's hard to pay back a team mate.

(and yes, I know some feel JPM had the corner, based on oval track conventions, but they were roadracing, and in roadracing you need to earn the corner. JPM hadn't come close to earing the corner)
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If you don't want someone to get underneath you don't leave a hole big enought for them to try and squeeze in. Both are a fault, SP for leaving an opening and JPM for trying to make a pass at that S turn. Too aggressive.

JPM may have been faster, but not faster enough. Pruett was in the lead and the corner was his by a bunch. JPM tried a low percentage pass on a car of equal speed. For someone of his caliber and training, it was a stupid move that could have, and some say should have, taken both of them out. Ganassi put on his best peeoed face, strutted his fatass around like he was upset, and secretly grinned like a possum eating catus.

Pruett is part time in Chip's stables, and I'm sure he sat him down after the race and told him that. JPM is a high dollared star designed to draw media attention and sponsorship. NASCAR loves him and so does the camera. They had all anointed him the winner from the green flag on. If it had been anyone else, he would've gotten a drive through at least.

I enjoy watching NASCAR when I've got the time, but they sure do get old when they let some a-hole stunts get by as long as they're done by "stars" and others heavily punished by the lesser than guys. I suppose they thrive on controversy...even if they have to create it out of thin air.

Hey, its NASCAR, overtaking that way is accepted. How do you think the late, great #3 got his nickname and reputation? :rolleyes:

JPM was too agressive, maybe forgot for a moment that he didn't have F1-quality brakes. OTOH, Pruett had to have known, or been told, that JPM was faster and was going to try to get by. Pruett appeared to leave the door open, and maybe JPM though he was going to let him through. They are team mates, and you know Pruett was going to be ordered to move over to let the star win.

This incident didn't bother me as much as Mark Martin getting punted off the track at the last restart of the truck race in California (I think that's where it was).

Unfortunately the NASCAR of the last few years is more of a cross between WWE and General Hospital. The scripting and constant corporate nods have become a bit of a bore. JPM should have known better period. I hope Pruett taught him some "Spanish" after the cameras were off.

BTW, too bad Said couldn't restart to save his life. Big nods to D. Hamlin....can that kid drive or what???



R

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Unfortunately the NASCAR of the last few years is more of a cross between WWE and General Hospital. The scripting and constant corporate nods have become a bit of a bore. JPM should have known better period. I hope Pruett taught him some "Spanish" after the cameras were off.

BTW, too bad Said couldn't restart to save his life. Big nods to D. Hamlin....can that kid drive or what???
R [/b]

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To do it to a team mate, I just can't imagine doing that for any amount of money or fame!

You guys are judging that move based on GCR rules for passing (or at least "gentlemenly" rules). Does Nascar even HAVE rules for "passing" on a roadcourse? That's probably the biggest reason there was no penalty.
As for Pruett driving the racing line, I'm thinking if I was leading a race, being hunted down by a faster car, I wouldn't leave the inside wide open for a divebomb move that might just take me out. Even if they put Montoya at the back of the friggin pack, Pruett wouldn't get his lead back. Come on, Pruett isn't new to this, and who doesn't know Montoya's reputation? Did he really think JPM would actually WAIT? Oh yeah, how would the race have been if they'd actually gotten all the fuel in JPM's car? I bet CRASHCAR would've found a lot of "debris on the track" to keep the field bunched up.

Related but seperate question of mine: why do the "roadcourse ringers" have such a poor showing on the roadcourses? Ron Fellows, Boris Said, Scott Pruett (OK, he get's an asterisk for this one for getting punted :) ), Robby Gordon, etc.

I agree wit CDS the door was open and Pruett new all about it .He didnt have the car to beat Montoya,He would have been better served to sit on his tail and finish a strong second because Hamlin was comin . :eclipsee_steering:

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You guys are judging that move based on GCR rules for passing (or at least "gentlemenly" rules). Does Nascar even HAVE rules for "passing" on a roadcourse? That's probably the biggest reason there was no penalty.


Related but seperate question of mine: why do the "roadcourse ringers" have such a poor showing on the roadcourses? Ron Fellows, Boris Said, Scott Pruett (OK, he get's an asterisk for this one for getting punted :) ), Robby Gordon, etc. [/b]

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From what I read, you like the demolition derby style drive allow in nascar? What great driving, what great skill to wait and smack someone on purpose in a turn where they are at the limit of adheasion and take them out! Hell I guess I've been doing it all wrong all these years, passing people with out hitting them. What the hell was I thinking? B) I guess the guy who power pushed Joey Hand last year and sent him end over end @ Mid O was a class driver? From what I see sometimes, it's nothing more than assult with a deadly weapon and has no room in racing. This is nothing more than close lining a hockey player with his stick.



As for your roadcourse ringer question, there are 3 things needed to do well. A skilled driver, or a very lucky driver if your talking nascar, a good car (w/ engine, tires, etc.) and a good team. If any one or 2 of these things are off, I don't care how good the driver is, he will do the best he can and that ewill be all he can do until all 3 are on.

Oh Dan, you're not making this personal are you? Where in my post (or your quote of my post) do I make any sort of statement hinting that I LIKE "demolition derby style" or that I commended JPM on his skills or abilities? And trying to link YOUR (incorrect) interpretation of my statements to Joey Hand's crash? Where does that tangent come from?
It just gives me a bad feeling when rules are applied to critique a situation, when those rules don't apply. I thought everybody was entitled to their own opinion and the freedom to share it, within reason. But, IMHO it's this closedmindedness and higher than thou perception that puts a damper on being part of this club.
And everybody knows d@mn well that in his head at least, Pruett is kicking himself for leaving the door open like that.
Thanks,
Michael

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Oh Dan, you're not making this personal are you? Thanks,
Michael [/b]

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Not at all Michael. :D My statements were complete and utter frustration with this and other incidents I have seen. I asked the question about the derby, to make sure you weren't defending the way some of these guys drive.

BTW Boris finished 3rd didn't he?

No, Pruett should be kicking himself for not kicking JPM in the sack after the race, LOL.

JPM wasn't NEARLY close enough to attempt a clean pass. JPM was Pruetts teammate. (1st rule in racing, don't take out your teammate), so Pruett, at that point, in that corner, really didn't need to be a dick and block.

Later, maybe, but not that corner, on that lap. And yes, JPM did have a faster car, so it was likely inevitible that he'd get by. But, he really needed to show his TEAMATE some respect, and be SURE to be clean when it was time to go.

Dick move, NOT Pruetts fault, no other way about it.

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Not at all Michael. :D
BTW Boris finished 3rd didn't he?
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Cool, we're good. :birra: Boris was on the podium? Shows you how much I really paid attention...
But in the good ol' boy context of NASCAR, "it's just one of them racing deals"...
Alright, I'm done :dead_horse:

Thanks,
Michael

I'm with Steve on this one - my thought at the time, and it hasn't changed, was that JPM just blew it, went in way too hot thinking he might be able to get under him, and when Pruett turned into the corner (which was clearly his) Montoya couldn't check up in time to keep from running into him. But, I don't think JPM has learned "I screwed up" in english yet, so "he went wide" was all he could come up with. On the other hand, if Pruett had been paying attention to Boris (I know, he was in his mirror), he would have seen that you could stay inside on entry to that corner and successfully defend it. I like JPM, but there's no doubt in my mind he just plain screwed up.

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No, Pruett should be kicking himself for not kicking JPM in the sack after the race, LOL.

JPM wasn't NEARLY close enough to attempt a clean pass. JPM was Pruetts teammate. (1st rule in racing, don't take out your teammate), so Pruett, at that point, in that corner, really didn't need to be a dick and block.

Later, maybe, but not that corner, on that lap. And yes, JPM did have a faster car, so it was likely inevitible that he'd get by. But, he really needed to show his TEAMATE some respect, and be SURE to be clean when it was time to go.

Dick move, NOT Pruetts fault, no other way about it.
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Even if JPM made the pass, you guys are forgetting there was a left hand turn right after that, so SP would have the inside line! The best way to protect your car is by not allowing the car behind you any room that he could possible take you out. You control where he passes, don't let him control the pass.

Funny this topic is here. I didn't see the race but I just saw the highlights on one of the weekly recaps. I too thought "Damn JPM, you didn't have to do that". I too think it was just a mistake. What was really interesting was that in the same highlight sequence they showed Pruitt using exactly the same "technique" to get by another car. As such, I think Pruitt has to accept the old "good for the goose, good for the gander" bit.

Besides, it still wasn't as blatant what you see in a typical "professional" Grand-AM cup race...

JPM had used the same tactic earlier and gotten away with it. Brake on the racing line, then dive bomb the car ahead just prior to turn-in. What he forgot in this case was the only rule Ganassi-Sabates had laid out, which was "teammates DON'T take each other out......period".

As far as Pruett goes, I'm sure he felt a bit of margin entering the corner for two reasons: a) his TEAMMATE was the one behind him, and b ) he had SEVERAL car lengths on JPM in the braking zone. I wonder if JPM has learned the Spanish term for "hopeless", which is what his move actually was. If justice was truly to be served, they would have both spun, and Ganassi would have fainted right in the pits! Then Boris could sneak by both and win the whole thing!

It was almost sickening to listen to the commentary of the race when it came to JPM. If he had gotten out of the car he could have walked on water right there! The could barely admit that he might have, possibly, sort of, too-close-to-call, accidentally made a mistake. I think Rusty Wallace was wearing Texaco-Havoline-TelCel underwear! There was probably more bratwurst in the pits than objectivity in the booth. :018:

The sad part is, JPM would have won the race easily anyway. I guess we can classify that as a Busch-league move. :D

Chip Ganassi lives in NE Pittsburgh in a BIG home (I didn't plaster it :( ), I would have loved to be a mouse in it and listen what he had to say about the incident behind close doors

Forget last weeks news. How about who did what to who at the Sat. Vegas Bush race?

You guys crack me up. This is Pro racing! Scott left the door open it is as simple as bump and run after that. Hey scott has done it plenty of times himself, just not recently. Does anyone remember his IMSA racing in Fords with a temmate Willy T Ribbs? Yea, those guys took each other out multiple times and threw punches. Bottom line, scott knows better than to go wide like that.

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You guys crack me up. This is Pro racing! Scott left the door open it is as simple as bump and run after that. Hey scott has done it plenty of times himself, just not recently. Does anyone remember his IMSA racing in Fords with a temmate Willy T Ribbs? Yea, those guys took each other out multiple times and threw punches. Bottom line, scott knows better than to go wide like that. [/b]

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You crack me up! It's wrong to take a team mate out "Period" end of discussion.

Come on, I agree with you in principle. But get real do you actually watch pro racing? i cannot even count the number of times I have seen teammates take each other out. They each have seperate contracts and the team owner has multiple entries for multiple chances to win. Sure if multiple cars place well there is the SECONDARY award for multiple finishers in high positions, but that is NOT the goal.

AT that level if you see a hole, a chance to advance you take it. That is just the risk.