I finished up the car prep yesterday and while it isn't perfect, it should get me through RR next week. Hope to see you there.
[attachmentid=798]
Printable View
I finished up the car prep yesterday and while it isn't perfect, it should get me through RR next week. Hope to see you there.
[attachmentid=798]
Car looks great, good luck at Savannah.
(from another IT dinosaur driver).
You should have a ball. I raced Z cars in ITS and EP for ten years and they were fast, fun, and forgiving to drive. Also did my first school at Roebling and it was a great experience. Good Luck.
"Bosco" Logsdon
Car looks really good. Got a friend getting his license at RR this week as well. What races in the SE you planning on doing?
I hope to be at Barber in July. It's just to close not to go to. Maybe RA in the fall. Memphis maybe and maybe even a trip back to Roebling. I am in a wait and see kind of deal. I hope to do a couple of Time Trials at TGPR and Nashville and if at all possible the Crow Mountain Hillclimb. (it's only 20 minutes from my house)
You can view details of Crow Mountain @ www.crowmountainhillclimb.org. I have worked it the last two years and think it is time to run (especially having driven it in my street car a number of times).
Thanks for the comments and help. It wouldn't have happened if not for Katman, Dspillrat, and Phils Tire!
Well seeing as how I work for a big government defense contractor, consider any email response during working hours as getting a tax refund. :D
This was my driving career:
Go to school. Get second school waived. Race once. Let license expire. Repeat several times until kids get old enough to play sports (and hence need coaching).
With your experience you'll do great. My advice to others for their first school is always "Winning the school races on Sunday afternoon mean nothing, stay save and on the track. If you're ever scared you're driving way too fast for your ability."
Of course I always won my school races, but I was driving cars I built so even a monkey could have won. Now pardon me while I dislocate my shoulder patting myself on the back...
If you listen to Keith & David your Z should be in good shape. Be safe & good luck at the RR school. My friend is renewing his license in a Spec Miata.
Another yellow Z-car! Good luck at school. I'll look for you at Barber and Roebling.
David and K-Man have been a tremendous help to me here on the board and on the track. Thanks to them, and great to see another ITS Z car back out there.
Let us know how Roebling goes.
I love the Z cars! Long live the Z!
Couldn't agree more.Quote:
I love the Z cars! Long live the Z!
[/b]
But then, I'm a guy with an ITS Z.
And a daily driver Z.
And a 'really nice' Z for weekends.
And a few (!) in the back yard.
Oh yeah, and a couple stored at a buddy's place...
:wacko:
Ty, I zink you have zee problem.
Whoa. That was bad.
I think I found another parts source :happy204:Quote:
But then, I'm a guy with an ITS Z.
.....
Oh yeah, and a couple stored at a buddy's place...
:wacko:
[/b]
Word! :happy204:Quote:
I love the Z cars! Long live the Z!
[/b]
Just try to remember this at the school. Winning there doesn't mean a thing. You're just there to get a license. Too many people wreck their cars at driving school and you don't want to total it there.
Roebling can be real unforgiving coming out of the last turn before the long straight. Sand gets kicked up onto the track and its real easy to have an off-track excursion there. And if you do go off there, don't try to turn back onto the track right away, slow it down first. The grass is planted in sand and its really likely to hit a pothole and snap spin backwards back onto the track and hit the wall in front of everybody.
At least one person does it per school. 3 when I was there. Yep, I was one of them. Bent my brand new race car's bumper too.
2 fellas rolled their cars at my school there and one formula ford caught fire.
Just get your license, and race more years that way.
Tom
Thanks Tom, I have been around long enough to know that I need to get through the weekend. I am also old enough that I don't need to prove myself to anyone. Still it is sound advice and taken to heart.
I am paddocked and I guess ready for registration in the am. Weather still says 30% chance of rain but Sat and Sun look good. Now the fun begins
Well, so how did you do?
I saw his car out there a bunch this weekend. He and I were in the same run group - although the ITS car was a bit too fast for me to keep up with. :)
I never did find his paddock spot, so the only time I saw him was when we were on the track. Sorry I didn't get a chance to introduce myself.
adamb
Yea how did the Z do?
I wish I could report something profound and exciting but I can't.
Overall things went well. I had some major carb problems during Fridays practice sessions. Thanks to Don Ahrens and some resetting of float levels the car was running well enough by the last session that I started to feel better about the car.
Saturday morning found my group as the first one on track for the day. We had drying conditions as it had started raining during the last session on Friday and continued until late that night. I was working on going deeper into 1, harder into 3 and finally was able to get into 4th between 7-8. I still wasn't flat out before I apexed 8 but was getting better.
But then I just lost my nerve and will to continue. I had turned a 1:34 lap during the last morning session with the full depth Toyo's but I was not comfortable. I had lost my confidence in the car. This was my very first time at speed in this car and I just wasn't sure how it would react at the edge and I second guessed my prep of the car. I kept asking myself what did I miss and what will it make the car do when it lets go. It was a hard decision but I think it was best for me at that point in time. I decided to drop out aftter the Saturday lunch break.
Will I go back, I sure hope so. My plans are to get some more seat time and increase my comfort level with the car doing some Solo 1's in SEDIV. After gaining some confidence in the car I think I can go back but only time will tell.
I did get to see Adams car but really didn't get a chance to meet too many people. I still hope to be able to associate faces with their screen names. a HUGE thank you to Chris Newberry. He was not only an excellent instructor he truly cared about his students. For that I am grateful and it made my decision to walk away even tougher. I will be back............at least I hope so. In the mean time I still need to work on the nut behind the wheel as that is where the most cost effective improvement will be anyway.
Thanks for asking and for the help. I sure hope to meet you guys at the track in the future.
Paul
First
Was it a dry weekend? Because if it was then you can't compare the times fairly running on toyo's versus a set of hoosiers. Plus, I bet you aren't really sure how many heat cycles those toyos have on them. I have heard they get quite greasy when they're on their last legs.
Second
If it was raining I think you might have been pushing the toyo's near their limits if you were turning a 1:34 in the wet. Just my opinion but that's that. It takes seat time to get used to a car at speed, and the double driving school at roebling isn't really the best place to get that seat time. Its not a bad idea to do another school. If you were expecting to do in the 1:24's right out of the box you shot yourself in the foot before you started. Roebling has the longest straight in the southeast and that makes that last turn a really important corner. And turn one you can double apex or go really deep and single apex. But on the latter, you really have to maintain speed or you'll get passed by the next 2 turns.
It sounds to me like you were being too hard on yourself. I can remember going into turn 12 at Road Atlanta for the first time, putting my foot to the floor and then backing off thinking, "Home Equity loan, oh shit, home equity loan!".
Besides, an early z car can be an unforgiving (expletive deleted) when its not set up properly and you're not used to it.
What diff ratio were you running?
I want to add to the above. You probably did better than you thought you were doing. If driving school wasn't just a little humiliating in some way, you weren't learning anything. ;)
And you and your car are still in one piece!!
Don't give it up. Just do it.
Tom
It was a dry weekend. One session (morning Sat) had some leftover water from the overnight rain for our session. Other than that, it was dry.Quote:
First
Was it a dry weekend?
[/b]
I was wondering why I didn't see you later on in the weekend. I figured it was a broken car. You were not alone... there were several people that packed up early. It was a bit intimidating, no doubt. Turn 8/9 at full throttle in my ITA car was crazy, I can't imagine it in a faster car.
adamb
Pb, hang in there. If you didn't feel right being there, and didn't want to be there, you made the right decision to leave.
But, if you were turning 1:34s by Saturday a.m., well, that's fine in my book. I went down there in an old ITS car (a TR8) that was a handful with the torque and the old BFG R1s I was running. I turned a best of 1:36 the whole weekend, but I finished up. And now, a couple of years later, I'm running 24s down there.
Putting times aside, let me say this about Roebling. I actually love the track, a great driver's track in my view. I also thought the instructors and instruction at Roebling were high quality and if you had Chris Newberry, you were extremely lucky.
That said, I DO NOT THINK ROEBLING IS A GOOD PLACE TO DO YOUR SCHOOL. There are TOO many cars. TOO much carnage and honestly, Roebling has at least 3 places were you can get in big trouble if you haven't been there before.
CCR ran a double school at CMP in 2004 (just one year) and had about 40 cars. This was good and bad -- bad in that it meant no more schools but great in that there was NO carnage and everyone got lots of one on one time with their instructor.
If I were you, I would consider doing the single at Summit, or maybe a single out your way. Take our time with it.
HOpe to see you on the track sometime.
My experience with the RA-1s is that they get faster and faster until they quit, rather than gradually deteriorating. Yours could have been gone, but you didn't know it.Quote:
Plus, I bet you aren't really sure how many heat cycles those toyos have on them. I have heard they get quite greasy when they're on their last legs.
[/b]
Never been to Robeling, but I'll second that. You're too busy at a school to even figure out what's going on, even more so if you didn't bring any crew (like I didn't).Quote:
It takes seat time to get used to a car at speed, and the double driving school at roebling isn't really the best place to get that seat time. [/b]
ROFL!Quote:
I can remember going into turn 12 at Road Atlanta for the first time, putting my foot to the floor and then backing off thinking, "Home Equity loan, oh shit, home equity loan!".
[/b]
I guess mine's still not set up right, then, because she's an unforgiving (expletive deleted) and I am used to her.Quote:
Besides, an early z car can be an unforgiving (expletive deleted) when its not set up properly and you're not used to it.
[/b]
Do you know another word for a stable race car? Slow.
Seriously, Pb, Tom may be right. Knock down some more cones, do a couple of HPDEs, then try again.Quote:
It sounds to me like you were being too hard on yourself.
[/b]
Paul,
Don't be too hard on yourself. You ARE SUPPOSE to be un-nerved at times in a racecar. Your confidence will grow with seat time. If everyone was fast right out of the box, we wouldn't need schools, and rookies would win races. Something that rarely happens.
As far as your confidence in the car itself; if your have done your maintenance, "nut and bolted" the car, and gone over all the systems, then you have to let go of that fear that that the car may fall apart on you. The truth is if you have done all those things, there isn't much you can do to prevent something from failing in the course of a race or session. The old saying is "if you can't afford to write off a racecar, you can't afford to race". Now I 'm not saying that everyone should go out there and trash their car, and those around them. But racing is still a hazardous endeavor and you as a driver can't control all the variables around you. Part of the knowledge gained by seat time, is that understanding. Hell, the first season or two I was so scared each race, that I could barely breath. But these days, sitting in the car before a session is the calmest part of a race weekend for me, and the most enjoyable. So do some more HPDE and Solo 1's, and try the school again. You will not regret it.
Hell, the first season or two I was so scared each race, that I could barely breath. [/quote]
LOL...I remember the thought that went through my mind the first time I came down to the green flag for the "school race" -- "WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING STRAPPED INTO THIS THING?"
Tristan is right. The feeling of uneasiness will -- gradually -- subside. I also strongly believe, per teh above, that the Roebling school does nothing to reduce it.
Hang in there, and shoot me an e-mail or PM if you want to talk more. I'm just a few years out of school, and I still remember that school feeling VERY well.
Thanks guys, I will be back, I just need to build my confidence in the car and my prep. :bash_1_:
FWIW, I really have no idea on the diff ratio. The spare locker is a 3.54 IIRC, and it is a guess that I have a 3.70 or 3.90 installed. The tires were brand new, full depth Toyo's and they felt pretty good even with the tread squirm I started feeling. The bottom line was I was just didn't trust myself or the car as much as I needed to last weekend. With some more seat time and better car prep I think that will change.
I have written a fairly long story about my experiences for the regions newsletter. I will post it here in the near future and you can better understand what happened to me. I am sure that I am not alone with what I went through. I didn't expect to be fast but I also didn't expect to wind up feeling the way I did. I was surprised when It happened to me.
I really do appreciate the kind words and like I said before, I plan on going back but when I do I will be both mentally prepared as well as having a better prepped car. And as much as I hate to say it, and I sure wouldn't like it, the real reason I bought this car was to have something to play with that I actually could afford to write off and not have to think like Tom going through 12 at RA (too funny about second mortage).
p
Paul, I agree with others and believe you were being too hard on yourself about the flag, lap times, among other things. Things will break on your racecar. It's just a part of racing. At my school the darn window wouldn't go up and I came very close to just smashing the darn thing. At the same point if you don't feel comfortable in driving your car, it would be nerve wracking for anyone. Like you said, do a PDX / HPDE and gain trust in your car as well as yourself. I am also not sure it can just be attributed to not feeling comfortable with your racecar. Based on your story, it was really the combination of everything related to the school and challenges you faced with your car. I am also not saying that you didn't do what was right for you at that time. It was better for you to recognize that you just didn't have the necessary comfort level and save it for another day after working on it.
My biggest advice is not to give up now! It would also make things much easier on you if you already know the track prior to attending a school at it. Trying to learn a new track under a competition school would be very challenging as you found out. At your next school, try starting at the very back of the pack. That way you'll have no where to go but up. :D During this process you'll also build your confidence.
This offseason I've faced several hurdles in building my new racecar. There have been points where I just shake my head and wonder if this all is really worth it, but something keep me coming back. Jake Gulick reminded me that all of these obstacles are exactly what make racing even more special. You wrote a nice story. Send it in to the region and post it here when you're ready. After you complete the competition school, re-read what you wrote. It will make the accomplishment that much more meaningful and special.
(I'll shoot you an e-mail and we can talk more offine.)