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Just trying to gather info to weigh fastest, against best wearing, against price, against availability against contingency.
What are the tire companies that have Regional programs (contingency, etc.)?
What tires do you feel are the fastest, longest wearing, best price for IT cars?
Opinions are what makes the world go round so that is what I am looking for.
Thanks,
Mac
fastest, longest wearing and best price are three mutually exlusive goals...do you want to go fast or save money? pick one.Quote:
Just trying to gather info to weigh fastest, against best wearing, against price, against availability against contingency.
What are the tire companies that have Regional programs (contingency, etc.)?
What tires do you feel are the fastest, longest wearing, best price for IT cars?
Opinions are what makes the world go round so that is what I am looking for.
Thanks,
Mac
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hoosiers are the fastest..but i hear the goodyear gscs's are up there too. neither are cheap.
FWIW, when we switched to Hoosiers from shaved Toyos, we did not sacrafice longevity. Note here that because we do lots of enduros, we care less about heat cycles (and retaining performance through them) then we do about actual mileage.
K
Mac, I agree, that's three different goals. If you're looking for a compromise, then this forum could set new lengths of opinions. I'll tell you what I've run and my opinions, which is what I think you're asking.
Hoosiers are far and away the best tire for our class, but they ain't anywhere near cheap, but then, neither are brake pads as a point of reference. Given care, they will wear for a long time, but after a few heat cycles, they give up the adhesion part and start to grain...as do all brands I've run.
Yokohama A008 and Y32 both are acceptable wear and handling, but aren't much cheaper than Hoosiers once they are shaved. My experience with both was a lot of sliding and an earlier turn in due to push.
Kumho's are excellent tires for wear and adhesion. I've used them in the past for long enduros and damp tracks. The price is fair and they hold up well. After a weekend, I've found the adhesion to go away rapidly.
I've only used one set of Toyo's for an enduro/wet track, so I can only speak into one instance and relate what others have told me. I was most impressed by the adhesion and the wear characteristics. They were taller than what I'd been running, so the gearing was different, but I found them to be an excellent tire for the buck.
I've run the Kumho's at TWS for the 6 hour enduro and had to change the fronts after 4 hrs. Even though this year's enduro was a MSRH, a potentially less tire friendly course, we never had to change the tires at all. The fronts were well worn, but not in need of changing and never really gave up much traction.
Hope that helps. If you need more info, PM me.
I understand the different aspects.
I was about ready to go with Hoosier even with the high price until I saw that they have no regional contingency and some of the other companies do. Not that contingency is the MAJOR factor, but getting something back if you are able to do well is somewhat of a factor. Andy likes the Goodyear and says it is fast. I am just hunting for opinions. The knew Khumo is an option, but is that wear problem fixed with the correct setup? Hankooks are an option too. Just trying to find out what other folks are using and why.
In the past my amount of race days has been so limited that tires were not that big a $$$ problem. (Besides, running SM down here meant TOYOs so there was no options.) Now I have options, and will also be racing more and I need help. HEP ME..... HEP ME I 'VE Fallen and can't get up!
Mac
Quote:
I was about ready to go with Hoosier even with the high price until I saw that they have no regional contingency and some of the other companies do. Not that contingency is the MAJOR factor, but getting something back if you are able to do well is somewhat of a factor.
Mac
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I use Hoosiers, strong believer in thier performance. As for Contingency it must depend on the region you are racing in. Here in the Northeast, Hoosier has had all sorts of contingency programs depending on the different race events.
Hoosier also has trackside support at all Northeast Racing events. This is a BIG BIG plus IMO and well worth the extra cost, not that the tire isn't worth it alone.
Raymond
Hoosier contingency is typically handled by the local dealer, where Kumho contingency is handled by Kumho Corporate (at least in the U.S.).
Mac, if you find your "local" Hoosier guy and check you may find that there is local/divisional contingency like Raymond mentions.
Jarrod
Raymond is absolutely correct. Trackside support is the key for me and all the Hoosier dealers at trackside are A-1!!
So you are saying Hoosier Regional Contingency comes from local dirtributors?
And who would that be for MID DIV?
Hoosier Tire Southwest and...
</span><div align="center">Hoosier Tire West
TOPLESS PERFORMANCE
1125 E. Verde Ranch Rd.
Paulden, AZ 86334
Phone: 928-636-1222
Toll Free: 877-728-0914
Fax: 928-636-3715
E-mail: [email protected]</div>
<div align="center">
</div>
<div align="center">and....</div>
<div align="center">
</div>
<div align="center">Track Store
( Formerly German Motorworks)
NW Regional Airport
Row 8 Hangar 5
Roanoke, TX 76262
Phone # - 817-491-0033
Fax #- 817-491-0130</div>
<div align="center">
</div>
<div align="center">and...</div>
<div align="center">
</div>
<div align="center"><span style="color:#000000"> Appalachian Tire
Rodney Perry
Mike Haworth
1919 Airbase Rd
Louisville, TN 37777
ph. 865-681-6622
fax 865-681-0775
e-mail: [email protected]</div>
<div align="center">
</div>
<div align="left"><blockquote>Appalachian is GREAT. There is nothing I can think of about them except praise. Rodney has an incredible memory. If they are at an event you are attending, they deserve your business.
Here's the event support info for 2006. That will give you an idea of who's where and when.
https://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm
</blockquote></div>
Last year it was Hoosier Tire Midwest: http://www.hoosiertire.com/DIST/disthtmw.htmQuote:
So you are saying Hoosier Regional Contingency comes from local dirtributors?
And who would that be for MID DIV?
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Back a few years, Charlie Clark at KC Raceware was the division distributor, and he did have a contingency program that he personally administered. Since I've been running in your old world and don't have a tire choice, I'm not sure what/how the Hoosier Midwest guys are doing it.
Jarrod
I am not aware of any Hoosier contingency program for Regional racing in the MW Div. But I would LOVE to hear otherwise. Hankook is the only one I know of w/ a Regional program.
Mac -
i REALLY don't want to provide any useful advice since i will be competing against you this year, but i will try anyway. i haven't checked recently, but as of i think a year ago the hoosier midwest guys would do 1 free tire per win. i better get some coffee, this may take a while.
i have run a LOT of people's old takeoff tires in the last three years, so i have some experience with how well tires wear and keep their speed. tires i've used include Hankook Z211, Toyo RA-1, Kumho Victoracer, Kumho V700, and Hoosier RS304/5.
the Z211's sucked in retrospect. at the time i loved them cause they wore like iron and didn't really drop off throughout the race. but they heat-cycled out quickly and were not fast at all (but of course i wasn't either). the good thing was everyone hated them and i picked up a couple sets for beer.
toyo RA-1. i don't have much time on these, but i'm sure you can find more info and opinions than you want from more credible sources than me from SM guys. and you have already driven on them lots.
Kumho Victoracer. i think this is the best "compromise" tire i have ever used. i ran pretty much an entire season (8 races maybe?) on a single set that were used for i'm not sure how long in the past, but it was at least a couple sessions. for my skill and car prep level, i think i ran good times on them for 90% of the season. they didn't blister, you had to really abuse them to get them to overheat, and they wore well. at the last race of the season though i thought they were going away, i think i coulda still turned good times with them, but it would've taken more sliding of the car, and been less consistent. Especially in long carousels like T3 at MAM, which you will grow to hate next year. in my opinion, if SM had to have a spec tire, this should've been it.
Kumho V700. i only ran 1 qual and 1 race on these last year, and it was at topeka in july when it was literally 110 degrees. i didn't think they handled temperature well, and when i checked them after the race i had blisters the size of dinner plates on my RR tire, as HPT is primarily a left hand track. i've still got a set mounted up in the basement, and i plan to try them again when it's cooler. actually, i tried them in another qual session in october and didn't think they had any grip at all, i chalked it up to sitting for a few months and needing to scrub off the hard top layer, as they got better and better throughout the session.
Hoosiers. i ran a set of these at the last race last year that had probably 10 heat cycles on them including a 2hr enduro. they really weren't bad, took a couple laps to come in (my trip through the mud may have something to do with it), but laps about 3-8 they were pretty solid. i was fairly impressed with them given the wear they had.
Kumho V710. i have a sticker set in bags in the basement, and this what i plan to run the majority of next season.
in summary, the best compromise tire i have found is the Victoracer. i better get back to working on the car if i'm going to try and keep up with you next year Mac. :birra:
Amen to the Appalachian Tire praise. I've never run into a Hoosier dealer that wasn't great, but these guys are superior. They go beyond the extra mile.
That is so me good info. I have used Appalachian before at both Memphis and RAtlanta. Great service.
From feedback so far ( and talking to others) it looks like I need to go with either Hoosiers or Kuhmos new tire.
Travis, You could give me all of Penske / Donahues speed secrets and my inconsistency would overcome it!
Maybe there will be enough Mid Div guys running Hoosier to make it worth throwing something out there. Do you know who to talk to? I don't think it is any of the Texas Hoosier Reps.
If the Kuhmo 710 is close in speed to the Hoosier it would be a definite option.
For the Miata, here is my data:
Fastest tire - Goodyear RS. The 205/50/15 is AS WIDE as the 225/50/15 GSCS. They take about an extra lap to get up to temp than the Hoosiers but they don't go away and they are more resistant to flat-spotting. If you don't have contingency issues to deal with, go with the GY. They cost the same as Hoosiers and when well taken care of, they will keep you at the front for 10-12 heat cycles.
Check here for your local team.
We found the same thing with the GSCS on the RX-7's. We like the 225/50 combined with the 5:12 R&P. Take a look at what the guys running the RUnoffs use. Mostly Goodyear in AS, T1, T2 and T3. RWD cars love these things.
I am lucky in that I have great GY and great Hoosier support to choose from so that isn't a deciding factor - just what the fastest tire is.
Mac, I think Bobby Archer handles Hoosiers...or at least did. He's done some work for me a while back. His prices are fair...as long as you stick to tires only. :D
Chris,
I have done some business with Bobby for several years. He won't be trackside in Mid Div and I would like to do business with the dealer that is going to be there. I knew Andy would bring the Goodyears up (dang it) and he has told me the above info before. I may just have to bite the bullett and go in that direction.
So now I am back to three options!
I thought this BB was suppose to help you.... :unsure:
Oh well they all cost money.
Mac
I would leave Kumho's alone....
Go with either Hoosier or Goodyear.....by far the two best of the lot !!!!
Have to agree with the praise for Appalachian Race Tire and Hoosier. Track side service and tire quality are second to none. They take care of my wheels and I have never missed a session even when I dropped wheels off late. Rodney always has accurate setup advice and they stand behind the product. Choose your tires for performance as well as support. Cycle them correctly and they will last with any tire out there. Go Hoosier!! :026:
Andy makes a good argument to try the Goodyears, but at least around Florida I can almost always buy the Hoosiers from Appalachian at the track. I only see the Goodyear truck at the bigger events. I have been racing on the Toyos in SM and really don't like them at all... The fast guys do fine with the Toyos but I find that they are vague and as they heat up become really greasy. I tried the Kumhos a couple of years ago and found that they would wear out very quickly.
Now that I am racing in ITA I am using the Hoosiers.
I really like the Hoosiers. . .I am much faster on them than the Toyos, but more importantly I have a lot more fun with the Hoosiers. Maybe my ham handed lack of car control is better hidden with these tires. :eclipsee_steering:
Steve,Quote:
Have to agree with the praise for Appalachian Race Tire and Hoosier. Track side service and tire quality are second to none. They take care of my wheels and I have never missed a session even when I dropped wheels off late. Rodney always has accurate setup advice and they stand behind the product. Choose your tires for performance as well as support. Cycle them correctly and they will last with any tire out there. Go Hoosier!! :026:
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... Very well said. And I can't agree with you more. I even changed classes so I could continue to use Hoosier Tires.
... Rick Thompson
... 2nd SARRC 2006 SEDiv ITA 1st Gen RX7
How many heat cycles can you get out of the hoosiers before they start to fall off?
As it has been said before you can not find a better tire dealer than Appalachian Tire. If you give them a heads up call they will bring a set of tires for you w/o payment just in case you might need them.
Luckily for me they sell Toyos as well.
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How many heat cycles can you get out of the hoosiers before they start to fall off?
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Um, one..................
The answer to the question you were really asking (when will they really, really start to fall off). If heat cycled properly, 10-12.
I have gotten as many as 15-17 heat cycles. The 15th was the fastest of all heat cycles. The 17th go ugly. They fall off FAST when they are done.Quote:
Um, one..................
The answer to the question you were really asking (when will they really, really start to fall off). If heat cycled properly, 10-12.
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Then you are the only one. For this data: is this a track you have hundreds of laps on? No car changes at all? No weather/track changes? Same day?
Generally speaking, I agree with Lawton that 10 to 12 cycles is when the Hoosiers start to go away. Oddly enough though, like spknssz, my fastest laps have at times also come on Hoosiers with 12+ heat cycles on them.
I ran a test day last month at Thunderhill on some "practice tires" which were 12+ heat cycled Hoosiers. I had three laps that were almost a full second faster that I have ever been there. However, to Andy's point, it's normally 90 degrees plus when we race there and this day it was about 60 degrees.
The obvious question is, "everything else being equal, would the same laps have been faster on less heat cycled tires?" The point is, they can be fast after 12 cycles, just not reliably fast.
My experience has also been simialr to spknzss in that they fall off very fast once they're gone. I have run personal best laps on high heat cycle tires and then have them be completely gone one session later.
Awesome thanks guys for the info!