what to look for in a cheap tow vehicle

According to Dave Gran, I'm going to need my own tow vehicle. Apparently I can't convince him to get a 2 car trailer. Something about being in love with his tow dolly, or some other such nonsense. Also, I decided against using AAA to tow my car to and from the track. I figure I can get away with it 3 times, before they start asking questions.

So that leaves me with the task of finding a really cheap truck. By cheap, I mean less than $2000. The truck will only be used to get the car to and from the track. I know nothing about trucks, so I have no idea what to look for. So I need some pointers on what features I should consider (4x4, V6 or V8, etc) and suggestions on what are good models. The only 2 things I care about are it's ability to easily tow a car up that damn on the way back from Lime Rock, and reliability. I don't care if the truck is know to have problems with stupid plastic things falling out, A/C's that suck, or other stupid things that don't make the truck go. I don't care if it's a pickup, or a SUV.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. And there's no need to point out good deals on ebay, as I'm not looking to buy until the spring. But feel free to point me to ebay (or where ever) if that helps me to know what to look for. Thanks.

don't forget to look at full size vans as well. can be real cheap if they are ugly enough.

Jon,
You won't need a 4x4, plus that drives the price up. An older F150 or Chevy 1500 would work (with a V8) as long as your trailer isn't too heavy. And they're easy to work on. Although it pains me to say this, as Dick said, the vans can be a good deal. Just don't go too small. You don't want your tow to be more dangerous than your race!!

Tell Dave to get off his butt and buy a trailer!! How about Andy's "two car" that's for sale?? If I had the truck to tow it, I would be all over it!!

It is hard to get rid of the tow dolly when it has worked out so well for me. Everytime I'm about convinced to buy a "real" trailer, I find a race goodie for the car. And I just found a nice header to buy! :D

I should just tell you this in person but it will be good to get other people's opinions. Keep your options open and try not to limit yourself too much. Like you are doing, it is a good idea to develop a list of things to avoid but other then that...

It was kinda like me with my winter car search. Who ever would have thought that I would buy a silly VW?? :o

Bigger is better when it comes to tow vehicles in terms of safety, so get the largest truck you can afford. I can't make the argument that justifies the complexity and added expense of a 4x4 anything - if the weather is that foul you should really stay home. However, your mileage may vary. As Dick noted, vans are cheap and come in 3/4 and 1 ton versions. They also afford you with a dry secure place to store all the crud one ends up taking to the track.

Of course, the downside to that is one of the immutable laws of the universe is that available merde expands to fill available space. I'm living proof - this year we bought a fairly new E-350 with the V-10 (insert Tim Allen grunts here), and we have gone from carrying a small toolbox and a change of clothes to carrying so much crapola that it takes nearly an hour to load just the damned van! :(

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Originally posted by dickita15@Dec 1 2005, 07:03 AM
don't forget to look at full size vans as well. can be real cheap if they are ugly enough.

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Ouch, Dick, that hurt... ;)

But, he's right: find yourself a good van, preferably a Ford 1-ton with the non-turbo 7.3L diesel. I sold mine, with trailer, for a lot less than you think...

http://www.kakashiracing.com/e350.html

I replaced it with a newer passenger E-350 with the V10 (see, even I can be as cool as Wreckerboy) but that's probably out of your price range. I do miss the Orange Terror, though... - GA

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Originally posted by tcpip@Dec 1 2005, 02:26 AM
According to Dave Gran, I'm going to need my own tow vehicle. Apparently I can't convince him to get a 2 car trailer. Something about being in love with his tow dolly, or some other such nonsense. Also, I decided against using AAA to tow my car to and from the track. I figure I can get away with it 3 times, before they start asking questions.

So that leaves me with the task of finding a really cheap truck. By cheap, I mean less than $2000. The truck will only be used to get the car to and from the track. I know nothing about trucks, so I have no idea what to look for. So I need some pointers on what features I should consider (4x4, V6 or V8, etc) and suggestions on what are good models. The only 2 things I care about are it's ability to easily tow a car up that damn on the way back from Lime Rock, and reliability. I don't care if the truck is know to have problems with stupid plastic things falling out, A/C's that suck, or other stupid things that don't make the truck go. I don't care if it's a pickup, or a SUV.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. And there's no need to point out good deals on ebay, as I'm not looking to buy until the spring. But feel free to point me to ebay (or where ever) if that helps me to know what to look for. Thanks.

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Jon: Some pointers that have been suggested to me: If you have an enclosed trailer, go for a pickup. If you have an open trailer, look for a van or box truck.

One thing that I took into account when I bought a tow vehicle was that my family would be traveling with me - that meant at least three seats (preferably not all in the front!).

What I lucked into was a 3/4 ton V-8 mild conversion van, 1992, 114K. Not the prettyest car on the street, but I had all the rust removal stuff from working on the race car. I cannot keep a camper in my driveway, but this is ok, and we can still sleep at the track in it. The disadvantage (some may not see it as a disadvantage) with the conversion is that the rear seat is not removable to store extra gear. But there is plenty of room to take a weekend's worth of stuff. One advantage is that we can use it when needed (took my daughter and a bunch of her friends to her Home Coming dance - they turned on the mood lights, closed the blinds and made like it was a limo!) Price for all this fun? $2000 on the nose.

Don't worry about a tow hitch. I bought one on the internet and installed it with no special tools required. Took a couple of hours to figure out how to thread a bolt through the frame, but once I did, the job took about a half-hour.

Hope this helps. Good luck! :)

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If you are going to be towing long distance w/ a $2000 truck, leave early because you WILL have problems. That said, I'm still towing w/ my '95 Tahoe w/ 148,000 miles and I think it isn't worth a whole lot more than $2000. It may well be that for every extra $1000 you spend over 2, you get a lot more truck. The only major problem I have had w/ the Tahoe is the transmission - I'm on my third. It may behoove you to try to buy one that HASN"T been a tow vehicle.

I just went through this, though due to the fact that I had a frontier (not enough towing capacity) to get rid of I ended up trading in and dealing with a nearly equal car payment.

Lets assume you are talking about towing with say an open trailer. The F150 is nice, but if you can up your budget a little and get your hands on a mid to late 90's 2wd Chevy/GMC 1500 with the 350 in it you would have a solid TV. The reason I like the 1500 is the extended cab is actually comfortable for 3-4 people on a short haul, much better then the fords. And believe me its worth it.

Just remember to save some money on good sized towing tranny oil cooler. Most stuff in that price range didnt come with much cooling capacity for the trans.

I would have gone the 10kish TV if I could have found a buyer for my frontier, but at the time it wasnt happening. So I deal with a payment for the next 3.5 years. I plan to keep this truck as long as possible.

Much depends on what you are towing. If enclosed trailer, you will never have safety, reliability, and enough grunt to pull the hills in anything rated 1/2 ton (Ford 150/Chevy 1500 for example). Items like UJs, differentials, and especially rear springs WILL give you many problems. Tires probably won't be happy for long either. I had tire, spring, and occasional UJ problems on 1/2 ton vans towing an open trailer and light car, with no storage on the trailer. And not just one van, or one make of van either. But many trips were 6 to 10 hours.

If open trailer with little to no storage (extra weight), a van will work, especially it 3/4 ton with a V8. Another possibility is a box truck with the back large enough for the car - as in no trailer to deal with. Used ones are fairly cheap, and heavy duty. If you aren't concerned about the daily driver part, this might be your best bet. If willing to do your own maintenance, maybe look for a used rental truck.

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Originally posted by GregAmy@Dec 1 2005, 10:57 AM
Ouch, Dick, that hurt... ;)

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actually Greg I was thinking of Jake's old Dodge "Crack Van"

Hmm.. A box truck. I would never had thought of that. And wouldn't you know, Uhaul actually lists trucks for sale on their website. I like the idea of my truck and trailer being 1 vehicle. Since I have no plans for actually using the vehicle outside of towing, it sounds like a perfect idea. And hell, if anyone needs a moving van, I'll have them covered. The idea also has Dave's approval, as he said he'll buy a real trailer if I buy a box truck. Apparently he's go some crazy idea about me towing his car.

Jon,

I notice that you're from the NE. I also see a lot of people saying that you don't need 4WD. While it's true, you don't need it, it sure does come in handy if you have to paddock at places like Nelson or Summit Point (in the woods). I would personally never own a 2WD p/u, living in the NE. But I also don't dedicated my tow vehicle only for towing.

You've gotten some good advice here. I'll throw in some more thoughts. Don't go w/ anything under 3/4 ton. I towed my old open trailer around w/ a 1/2 '89 GMC K1500. It was fine on the flats, but REALLY didn't like the hills. Which brings me to my next point. Don't go under ~3.7 for the rear end ratio (4.10 will be better, but it'll probably cost you 1-2 mpg). Most of the 1 ton stuff only comes w/ 4.10 rears. Today's motors are a heck of a lot better than the old 225hp SBC that came in my '89.

As far as open vs. closed goes, if you're going to have an open trailer, I would really suggest a van. The last thing I wanted to do @ 1AM Mon. morning, was unload all the crap from the truck, after comming home from a race. If you've got a van, you can wait until Mon. after work (or just leave it loaded). Not to mention it keeps your stuff dry in the event of rain. But if you're like most of us, you won't have a whole lot of room in there for yourself. Look for a long-body van, if you're going that route.

The box truck is a cool idea, but now you're getting into a larger vehicle. You're going to have to watch road weight limits more, and depending on where you live, may need some kind of CDL (commercial driver's license). That being said, I've seen guys w/ box trucks, that put the car INSIDE the truck, and eliminate the trailer. Depending on the truck size, this might work for you. Keep in mind though, these things are heavy trucks, plain and simple, and ride quality will remind you of that. We've got a 16' Hino box truck that we use at work. It's a nice truck, rides ok, but I couldn't imagine driving a couple hundred miles in it. Not to mention that you're pretty much limited to the driver and 1 pass.

GregAmy wrote:

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I replaced it with a newer passenger E-350 with the V10 .... I do miss the Orange Terror, though...

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Greg, if it's any consolation, I know the guy who bought the Terror, and it is alive and well, and delivering a solid 15 MPG towing an open trailer. Saw it the other week at Summit - it went to a good home.

15 mph...what did we get towing the enclosed trailer down to Atlanta Greg?

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Originally posted by tcpip@Dec 1 2005, 11:02 PM
Hmm.. A box truck. I would never had thought of that. And wouldn't you know, Uhaul actually lists trucks for sale on their website.

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Box trucks or step vans make great tow vehicles mainly b/c they're cavernous and allow you to not only carry all your "stuff" but also allow you to build some living quarters inside if you so desire. A friend (who may ultimately post here) uses a box truck as his tow vehicle and loves the utility. The biggest downside to using such a vehicle is, as Bill mentioned, insurance. I have enough trouble convincing my insurance company that my F350 is NOT a tow truck per se and that I'm not secretly running a business. With a box truck or step van, the road is even more uphill and several insurance companies simply will NOT insure such a vehicle except thru a commercial account (read BIG bucks).

In order to save you from death row, do NOT buy a used rental truck and especially not a U-Haul truck. Of all the rental fleets, U-Haul trucks are by far the most abused and least maintained. Budget is a bit better b/c they aren't as well known. Penske is the best of the bunch b/c they offer commercial rentals which tends to mean that their fleets get routine maintenance as opposed to having oil added when the truck stops running...

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Originally posted by gran racing@Dec 2 2005, 08:24 AM
15 mph...what did we get towing the enclosed trailer down to Atlanta Greg?

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Hah! We averaged 7.4 mpg with the V10 for the ARRC round trip, not including the local usage during the week! Best leg was 8.2 (flats along I-91 through MD), worst was 6.3 (through the Blue Ridge on I-77). Fortunately, the average fuel cost was only $2.28 per gallon (vice $2.80-ish for diesel).

I'm glad Joe's getting good use out that van, it's a very good truck. If it had been a passenger van instead of cargo, it would have been a no-brainer for me to simply slap on a turbocharger kit for $1500 and keep it... - GA

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well I dont agree with Bill on that. He has not driving the latest 1/2 tons. Depending on the year and the final drive most of them can easilly handle 6klbs. So you can easilly tow and open but remember that most of the early to mid 90's trucks never came with a decent transmission cooler.

I would stay far from any Uhaul vehicals. But if you can find a deal on a fleet truck they are usually well maintained even if they saw some beating. And they are usually 3/4 ton.

The van idea is better if your planning to stay at the track, I hit autotrader around your town and found a few low top 3/4 ton conversion vans but they where in the 4-6k range. However, they will do the job ok.

If you plan to pull an enclosed your right a 1/2 ton wont work, but if I get to that point ill worry about that then. For now I can see the next few years of just pulling an open.

I would have to agree about modern half tons being a lot more truck than they used to be. With a tow rating of 8500 and having already pulled a trailer that weighs over 6500 loaded it's infinitely safer than the old E350 heavy duty van I had been using. But, since the question is about cheap tow vehicles you do have to be careful of older (mid 90's?) 1/2 tons.

As far as box trucks, the idea sounds nice, but I've seen some really scary moments as people try to put a sedan into one. Those boxes are MUCH higher off the ground than a trailer and while a minor mistake with a trailer can damage the car, a minor mistake that far off the ground can hurt people. It can be doen safely, just make sure you are prepared to do so. And insurance can be a shock

The best advice is to do your research. Figure out how much you are going to pull including trailer, car, tools, spares, food, adult beverages, etc and then add a healthy safety margin for all the things that you'll end up taking once you have room. Check the tow ratings of the vehicle and again a healthy margin is a good thing, especially if it's used. Once you find something check with your insurance company before buying so you aren't surprised. Oh, and how deductible these items are a grey area to say the least. Ultimately depends on what an IRS auditor says so I wouldn't plan on that.

Thanks for the replies. I'm getting some good info here. I did starting think about insurance for the box truck, and if I had to register it as a commercial vehicle, and if I needed a commercial license for it. Just more research for me todo. I also did take a quick look at Budget and Penske. I also was thinking of UPS, though most of there trucks are probably too tall. And yes, I was thinking about putting the car IN the truck.

I should have pointed out that I don't plan on getting an enclosed trailer, and may just go Dave's route and get a tow dolly. So I'm leaning towards the Van option.

Any other comments? Should I also be looking at extra cooling for the transmission, or some other addon that will keep the engine from failing during a tow?

Well if you go with an open (my prefrence.) you will need (if it doesnt have it) a 7 pin RV installed, a brake controller is always a good thing. And no matter what due to the hills of your area I would install an upgraded trans cooler. Other options would be trans temp, oil temp, oil pressure if you want to get all fancy.

At least that way you can avoid killing the TV before its time. Look for a non high top conversion or just a cargo van (conversions are nice cuz well most of that is done.)

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Originally posted by tcpip@Dec 2 2005, 02:00 PM
Thanks for the replies. I'm getting some good info here. I did starting think about insurance for the box truck, and if I had to register it as a commercial vehicle, and if I needed a commercial license for it. Just more research for me todo. I also did take a quick look at Budget and Penske. I also was thinking of UPS, though most of there trucks are probably too tall. And yes, I was thinking about putting the car IN the truck.

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Good info from this bunch? I race with some of this motley crew and know others personally and know that it's more like drivel - the more you ask, the more we spew ;)

In all seriousness, don't put the car IN the box truck. Matt is right (for once) - too much weight way too high and way to difficult to secure safely. The only vehicle I'd ever consider stuffing into a box truck is an open wheeler or a kart. A friend who races Nationals and is also a steward used to carry his DSR in a box truck but it was a Ford F600 cabover with a 25' box and a tommy-lift. When I think "box truck", I think van-front, box-rear.

There are a bunch of regulations revolving around commercial vehicles. Just b/c the vehicle is registered to a business doesn't mean that you'll need a CDL to drive it. That is unless certain specific criteria are required by the vehicle such as air brakes, gross vehicle weight over a certain figure or a maximum number of passengers.

If you're looking for cheap, I'll tell you the same thing that I told JamesB - buy a used conversion van. More than one person on this list uses an old conversion van as a tow vehicle b/c they are dirt cheap (for some reason, no one wants to buy a used conversion van - something about sitting on the "love" couch after the original owners that gives buyers the willies); in the right configuration, they can tow quite a large load; they have a voluminous cargo area for spare parts, coolers, bedding and dead bodies; they provide a changing area to keep your competitors from becoming ill and lastly, they have space for you to shanghai your crew without having to keep them bound and gagged.

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Originally posted by mgyip@Dec 2 2005, 04:50 PM
Good info from this bunch? I race with some of this motley crew and know others personally and know that it's more like drivel - the more you ask, the more we spew ;)

they provide a changing area to keep your competitors from becoming ill

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I try to help, I went through that and did find the conversion to be best, too bad I had that frontier to unload and 2 months on craigslist and autotrader got me nothing but people trying to use gas prices as a reason I should sell it to them for wholesale. But not to digress.

hey, if thats the case ill win if I just change ontop of your observation deck of the trailer!!

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Originally posted by dickita15@Dec 1 2005, 06:37 PM
actually Greg I was thinking of Jake's old Dodge "Crack Van"

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yea yeah yeah......

That van could be for sale...but I won't take a penny more...(or is that less?) than what I paid.

Handsome beast that it is....and reliable too! Cold AC! Goes 80MPH! (On the downhill away from LRP....and 20MPH..UP that same hill WITH the 80MPH head start!)

It could be yours for less than you'd expect...(in so many ways, LOL)


Seriously, a van has a lot to recommend it)

That van sounds like the "devil" rollback a friend used to use to get to LRP. It did the same thing but even better was this gremlin it had where it would just shudder violently at random times, or got a whole weekend without a single vibration. The thing was possesed. But for what he paid it was worth the adventures.

The van solution is a really good one. I spent a lot of time about 2 years ago trying to solve the same problem. I had gotten lucky getting by with a 4.0 Jeep Cherokee for too long, and decided it was time to get a real tow vehicle. My brother has an F350, crew cab, diesel, long bed, 4x4 truck that I was salivating over. Then I started shopping. The only 1 tons and 3/4 ton pickups I found were pretty long in the tooth, with questionable historys. The ones I would even consider were in the $6-$10k area.

Ended up with a 1995 GMC 3/4 ton conversion van with a 350, tow package, and sweet valet lights inside. I pulled off the crappy fender flare/side step things, and it looks and acts like a truck, but keeps stuff I carry onboard dry and only cost $4200. It tows our open trailer 1000 times better (and safer) than the Jeep did. It also provides some space for our 1yr old to nap in, or get diaper changes. We camped in it when crewing for a freind at the June sprints and it worked great.

So yeah - the van idea, check into that....

Chris

I am also looking for a cheap tow vehicle 2-3 thousand. What about like a late 80's or early 90's Suburban? Good? Bad? Anyon e using one of these? Also out of the conversion vans is there a better one to get like the chevy over the ford or the dodge. Thanks.

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Originally posted by wacrxguy@Dec 9 2005, 10:21 PM
I am also looking for a cheap tow vehicle 2-3 thousand. What about like a late 80's or early 90's Suburban? Good? Bad? Anyon e using one of these? Also out of the conversion vans is there a better one to get like the chevy over the ford or the dodge. Thanks.

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The Subs up to (I think 92) are the old (or is it old, old) body style and are known for rust. Otherwise good trucks. About 5 months ago I picked up a 95 2500 (8 lug) Suburban. 454, new (OK) paint w/ a rebuilt trans for just over 5K. So far it's been great. Tows my VW like it's not there.

-Bob

I may be going against the grain here, but I would suggest not starting with a price range but starting with the features/capabilities you must have followed by what is nice to have. Both times I have purchased tow vehicles I have gone too cheap and ultimately regretted it.

Just like buying a car versus building, spending a little more up front gets you LOTS more than it costs to add it later. A/C is a good example. Doesn't seem that important until you are driving home after a wet spring or summer event. You are wet, everything you own is wet, it raining so you can't keep the windows open, and you cannot wipe fast enough to keep the moisture off the inside of the windshield. That SUCKS and is dangerous.

I live 5 minutes from Rd Atl so I can get away without many features or capacity, but if I was going to go any farther, I would make sure I got a safe, reliable, and relatively comfortable vehicle first. There is always be a part to buy for the car, so you better spend the tow money all upfront.

Just my .02

Rory

How about a dream ride.

Ford Excursion with 7.3L turbo disel with a Banks upgrade. Can you say 500HP with about 1000 lbs torque and about 15-17mpg highway none towing. :119: You will definitely need the transmission upgrade. It will tow anything and take you there in style.

I have a 94 burb and love it but wish I could afford the dream.

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Originally posted by Festus E. Simkins@Dec 27 2005, 12:44 PM
How about a dream ride.

Ford Excursion with 7.3L turbo disel with a Banks upgrade. Can you say 500HP with about 1000 lbs torque and about 15-17mpg highway none towing. :119: You will definitely need the transmission upgrade. It will tow anything and take you there in style.

I have a 94 burb and love it but wish I could afford the dream.

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Yep, would love one of those!! Probably wouldn't even need the Banks upgrade to pull a 24' Haulmark. Towing mileage will still probably be in the 10mpg range, maybe a bit more.

I know matts F350 pulling my open with the ITB car loaded up in stock mode we where getting around 14mpg towing. I know pulling his pig of a trailer with the chip turned up we where in the 9mpg range, so unless that haulmark is way loaded up I couldnt see it getting down under 10mpg either.'

I wanted an F250 PSD CC short bed, then went looking for a not too abused pickup (I use it to get to the metro and use around the house as well as towing) in the end due to interest rates and 'employee pricing' im paying less for a brand new truck.