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i've decided to go the nitrogen bottle in the trailer route.
what is the most common size that will work and not break your back hauling back for refills?
for those using the quite large bottles, do you haul back in the trailer to exchange or pull out of the trailer?
any thoughts on what you might have done differently? where to mount, how to etc.?
tia, tom
Call your local supplier to see what sizes they sell outright or rent. The size I want is about 5' tall and 8" in diameter. That is 200 cu.ft. and typically the smallest size they rent. This size will last a long time airing tires and running impact wrenches. AirGas in Marietta, GA rents one for $65/yr, $17 to refill and the regulator is $81.
The next size is 125 cu.ft. and is sold outright. It runs $187 and $10 to refill.
Anything else is too small or too big. I want to make a small pit trailer to tow behind my 3 wheeler that between the two can carry the bottle, tires, tool box, fuel, etc. The EZ Up stacked on there might be streching it.
Tom,Quote:
Originally posted by tom_sprecher@Nov 28 2005, 06:26 PM
Call your local supplier to see what sizes they sell outright or rent. The size I want is about 5' tall and 8" in diameter. That is 200 cu.ft. and typically the smallest size they rent. This size will last a long time airing tires and running impact wrenches. AirGas in Marietta, GA rents one for $65/yr, $17 to refill and the regulator is $81.
The next size is 125 cu.ft. and is sold outright. It runs $187 and $10 to refill.
Anything else is too small or too big. I want to make a small pit trailer to tow behind my 3 wheeler that between the two can carry the bottle, tires, tool box, fuel, etc. The EZ Up stacked on there might be streching it.
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Sounds like the first one you're talking about is what's known as a 1A size cylinder. Pretty common actually.
One thing to keep in mind about carrying around compressed gas cylinders, is that (especially since 9/11), you will be restricted as to where you can go with it. Pretty much universal that you can't go through a tunnel w/ one.
Bill,
Wasn't able to find a reference to a "1A" cyclinder at AirGas and the guy on the phone called it a 200, but thanks for the info.
Except for the tunnels to get to the infield at Charlotte, Atlanta and Daytona I can't think of any tunnels we have down here. Why don't they allow compressed gas in tunnels anyway?
120-150lb is the larger bottles. they stand 5-6' in hight about 18" around.
Is it 120-150 pounds? AirGas refers to 200 cubic feet. I don't know but since I have to get one before the end of Janurary I will know then.
I have to make up some straps to hold it against the wall unless someone knows where to get good ones for cheap.
Airgas I guess is your supplier they would likely carry the stuff to hold it in place. For a bottle that big unless you want to only mount it in the trailer with just removing it to swap for a refill.
Roberts refers to each bottle by the total weight once filled, which is why I go that way.
When I even carry the argon bottles for my welder I secure them with at least two rachet straps.
Not to sound like an alarmist, or to be condescending. But.
If you're not familar w/ HP gas bottles, take the time & humility to have your supplier give you a good lesson in what to do & what not to do w/ one. They are considerably more dangerous than they look.
Having worked in industries that use them for nearly all of my life, I shudder at some of the things I see people do w/ them at the track.
oh yeah, I completely agree. just having a few 20lb bottles of argon mixes in my house keeps me well aware of whats going on in my garage.
80s & 120s are easily hauled, the 200 I'd say is a lot for one person to realistically have to deal with other than rolling it around occassionally.
The 80 is the size of a typical SCUBA tank, the 120 is well, about 50% taller.
Check out eBay to buy a tank, you might have to search on Argon instead of Nitrogen to get a better result. Even though they're sold as Argon, there shouldn't be a problem filling that new tank with Nitrogen.
I think the tank circumferences are the same as a SCUBA tank (80&120, 200 is bigger), so you can check out tank holders for ideas on how to store the tank. Think about using a SCUBA backpack tank strap along with a couple 2x4 pieces to secure the tank. You can do it either vertically or horizontally; obviously keeping it upright takes less space.
With all due respect to the safety conscious, steel and even aluminum tanks are pretty sturdy. Usually the worst things happen when a regulator or valve is knocked off. Take the precaution(s) to keep that from happening and all should be fine.
I could see the risk of carrying large quantities of volatile gas cylinders through tunnels, but we're talking 1 or 2 tanks of an inert gas. IMHO there's no more risk in the tunnel than out of it. What's the rule for RVs and travel trailers, with propane, natural gas, etc?
Good luck,
Michael
I am not familiar with the sizing of nitrogen bottles, but as far as shuddering, I've had an oxy-acetylene setup in my basement for about 14 yrs now. I still check the gauges on the regulators whenever I walk by it to see if any pressure is indicated meaning a leaking valve. :unsure: :o
Tom,
Try this link:
http://www.airgas.com/gasmixes/inputmix.as...is_eclipse=true
Click on the "style info" button to get a good visual on the size differences and their relative empty weight and volume.
I use a 33A...use it for tire filling only. The bottle was just the perfect size for an 8 double regional season. One $17 or so fill lasted all season of topping off tires. Granted I am using a slicks with 9-11 psi cold pressure.
I bought a cylinder clamp thingy at Parsons Air Gas that I bolted to the sidewall of a workbench. I never transport is with the regulator on. I don't have any tunnels to go through. But Parker Dam will not let motorhomes or travel trailers across the dam.
I'd be very cautious of buying something like a compressed gas cylinder off flea-bay. Most places that you get them filled will want to see a current hydro certification. If you've ever seen bottles that have been around for a while, you'll notice that there are several dates, stamped into the bottle, near the valve. I haven't dealt w/ gas cylinders in a while, but IIRC, you had to have them hydro'd every 5-7 years.
Bill is correct--DON'T "BUY" A Used tank (don't buy a new tank, either). Lease it (I believe it's called "demurrage" in the trade).
You are charged an annual rental and buy the gas you use. When your tank is empty, the dealer gives you a different pre-filled tank for the cost of the gas in it.
Be careful securing and trailering your bottle of gas.
Cheers.
I own my tanks of argon, but I didnt pay full retail. I paid 118 for a a 40lb tank filled. The refill exchange was 62 bucks. I cannot complain on that. Im sure a 120-150 will cost some, but should last you a good amount of time.
For what its worth…. I do OWN my tanks, and I would recommend going the lease route. Reason being is that when you go to get them refilled most “air gas” stores(in my area) don’t actually refill them “in house” they have to send them to a regional distribution place and that can take a few days to a week or so. In the mean time you are SOL!!!
A few other notes
1. If the tanks are out of date they can “hydrostat” (I think that’s what they call it) and re- stamp them, they are then good for another 5-7 years depending on the markings*&+ this process only cost about 25-35 bucks. But it takes my place about 4 weeks to do this
2. As far as storage of the tanks the guys at the “gas store” freaked out when I showed up with 3 tanks laying down in the back of my vehicle. He told me that they “must” be transported in the upright position. I think this is a DOT CFR 49 requirement. In my trailer I secure it with 2 sections of E-track and a few cargo straps, and NEVER leave the regulator on while the vehicle is in motion. The storage cap is also always in place for transport.
3. When its time to refill the tank I do remove it from the trailer, and it is heavy, but I back the car right up to the trailer and unload it. You never have to actually lift the entire tank, only lean it and push or pull.
I hope this helps
Matt
Well I dont know how every vender works but I like how Robers Oxygen works. You buy the bottle, its stamped with their name on it, and you do exchanges, kind of like blue rhino propane works. I like it because the initial tank was like 40% more, but refills are easy. Just bring theold one leave with a new. They take care of the tanks so you dont have to.
How does it go?...YMMV..your mileage may vary.
I own my own tanks of nitrogen, argon, oxygen & acetylene. Some of the tanks I 'bought' out of my supplier's inventory, so when I need a refill he just gives me a different tank. He also has plenty of nitrogen tanks around that he can refill my tank while I wait.
I don't know about you guys, but so far I've been doing this about 8 years. Some quick math tells me I'm way ahead financially having owned my tanks instead of renting/leasing.
I would NEVER transport a tank with a regulator installed, and ALWAYS use the valve cap. But as for horizontal vs vertical, does that CFR apply to intrastate commerce, or to 'non-commercial' activities? Perhaps state law would defer to the CFRs in some instances, but I think for non-commercial use you wouldn't be cited, or creating any hazardous situations. FWIW, there are some gases like acetylene that should never be used while the tank is horizontal. Education and common sense, when used properly, can go a long way.
Good luck,
Michael
If your RV has a propane tank, it is not allowed in a tunnel, after all, RV really stands for "Rolling Volcano".......but I didn't say that.....
David
RV Sales Guy
From Matt Bal 67ITB:
2. As far as storage of the tanks the guys at the “gas store” freaked out when I showed up with 3 tanks laying down in the back of my vehicle. He told me that they “must” be transported in the upright position. I think this is a DOT CFR 49 requirement.
OSHA says the same thing & here's at least part of why:
If the tank is laying on its side and something heavy falls on it, off comes the valve & you've created a missle. If it is standing up, it is suposedly harder to snap off the valve. Second reason is that for acetelyne (sp?). To help stabilize this gas, the tank is full of acetone & the gas is disolved in the acetone. If you store it on its side, when you open the valve you get acetone liquid, not acetelyne gas. In order to keep people from getting confused, OSHA just says they all must be upright. However I've had interesting arguments with safety officers about empty gas bottles being left on their side as a better alternative to falling on somone's foot.
I don't know what DOT says about transport of gasses except that different gasses & chemicals have different quantities that require placards on the side of the vehicle and therefore a Hazmat endorsement on your CDL. Gasoline is 110 gallons (2 drums).
Matt
I spoke with roberts last time I was getting a refill, you have to have a decent amount, 500+lbs before a packard is required, and 1500lbs before a CDL hazmat is needed.
So if your just going to get a 120-150 nitrogen tank you can transport for personal use without an issue. Personally, I agree storage and transport should always be upright, even if you have to build a little wooden rig like I did to bring my tanks up to exchange.