ARRC-ITB

ok, the ITA guys had one started so I made an ITB one :) easier to follow any stories :)

I noticed that Justin got the Track record during the Enduro, congrats :).

A recap of what I have herd so far, Dave got beat up a bit... what happened???


Now for a thought :bash_1_: (bad Raymond)... My thought has always been that VW were the most common ITB cars, but not the dominant cars especially on a long track like Road Atlanta. Short twisty tracks Like NHIS and Lime Rock they seem to be better due to lighter weight and better handling than the "big cars." I have always thought that the Volvo is one of the best all around cars if you want to win (not just Sam, many others as well across the country). I also have herd many times that there are a few BMW's that are very very fast in the southern areas (?), and of course we have the Accord back in ITB. I guess my question is why are so many people spending thousands on VW when they don't seem to be the best car for the class??? We see many times VW at the podium, but I think that is a result of unbelievably good prep and GREAT driving. All the "fastest" cars (with exception to the Honda) in my mind seem to be common oddballs that we rarely see show up to an event (Only 1 volvo this year :119: ). Just a thought... Although the VW's do seem to be getting faster every year :)


Raymond

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...80_19_full.jpg

Come on, Dave! Show them a picture from the front, too!

The VW has great support from vendors. I don't think I have seen many adds for people selling go fast stuff for your Audi. Some people who prep there cars are not as mechanical as others and it is just easier to order parts than try to build it on there own.

Ron

Raymond,

People spend money racing VWs because they are just so damn cool!!! :P :023: B) Not to mention that they pretty much defined a whole new class of cars (hot hatch).

Seriously, as was pointed out, there are lots of go-fast goodies available, and they're pretty easy to build. Not to mention the HUGE knowledge base out there. And we'll see what the SCCA Santa puts under the VW xmas trees this year. :happy204: :smilie_pokal: :023:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...80_20_full.jpg

Story to follow tomorrow...

I really wasn't referencing the Audi, in my question... I guess that the VW does make sence, it is the most "cost effective" car to run I think in ITA, B, and C if you just want to play... And if you get real good, thier are plenty of, ok thier are a ton of tunners out thier with lots of cool stuff to make the car fast, really fast, but it will cost you and you have to be a perfect driver if you want to win.

I just fear the thought of missing all the Volvo's :(

Next year we need to round up some more oddballs to come and play... If nothing else just to show off the veriety in decently competitive cars :) in ITB :119: I think if I could choose a car it would be that Alfa GTV I saw in the pics... (:unsure: don't tell my Audi friends :unsure: )

Dave-

I can not wait for stories!!! Looks like you had a good time :bash_1_: lol

Raymond "next year" Blethen

>> VW were the most common ITB cars, but not the dominant cars especially on a long track

:rolleyes:
We'll see about that at Pocono ... again :eclipsee_steering: :D

*sigh*
First Dave has me help fix up his car for the ARRC, and then he trashes it. I think he's trying to scare me away from getting into racing. :bash_1_:
Anyways, can't wait to get the scoop tomorrow mourning.

As for the comments about VW's. Umm.. you can probably count on one more in the NE. At least mine will be an A3 Jetta.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Bildon@Nov 14 2005, 11:06 PM
>> VW were the most common ITB cars, but not the dominant cars especially on a long track

:rolleyes:
We'll see about that at Pocono ... again :eclipsee_steering: :D

[snapback]65395[/snapback]

---

If Pocono is a NARRC race... the bet is on :023: !!!

When are you guys going to go to the ARRC??? I don't think I can miss another year, even if that means quiting my job. :blink: I think you guys would be good, and have fun at that track... you definatly have what it takes to be a contender...

Raymond

PS: Jon- Looking forward to it :) somehow some way we will be back next season...

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RSTPerformance@Nov 14 2005, 11:31 PM
I think you guys would be good, and have fun at that track... you definatly have what it takes to be a contender...

[snapback]65403[/snapback]

---

Thanks Raymond. :023: I used to run 1:50's when I lived there so now that the car is faster...yes I think the B car would be a contender. But the plan is to get the ITS car up to speed.... the B cars are 100% developed and there's no real challenge anymore. When I pulled the tarp off the #55 car this year after almost 2 years in storage, changed the oil and won flag to flag at WGI that was great and fun on one hand :smilie_pokal: ...but on the other it really made me realize I need to move on. ITS is more of a challenge in a 'slow' VW. :P

Raymond,
In no particular order
1. VW was the car I happened to own when I started Autoxing
2. Parts are still readily available at the bone yard
3. I have garages full of spare parts
4. You can buy a running parts car for a few hundred bucks
5. Car is relatively simple to work on(I can remove a tranny in under 30 minutes)
6. Tons of people out there have already done the trial and error part of development
7. It’s funny to see peoples look on their face when you tell them you race a car that has less than 100 hp
8. It’s also fun to tell some one that that 100 hp car still gets around LRP faster than their (300+?)911
9. They are reliable, so you can actually race(No comment Bettencourt)
10. Lastly I must mention that my Co-Driver Manages Shine Racing Service :)

Well I didn’t intend for this to be a top 10…… but it is all true

Matt Bal

Jon – if you think my experience down at Atlanta will talk you out of racing, you’ve got it completely flip flopped! The entire trip was waaay cool (o.k., camping the second night with frost all over really sucked). Firstly, I need to thank my wife for all of her continued support with my obsession. When the decision of putting tile on the kitchen floor or going to the ARRC came up, I thought for sure she wanted the floor. Nope, she said let’s go to Atlanta – stop making excuses for not going. Whaaaa? After getting the car back from the body shop extremely late (like a week before we needed to go) and they didn’t have time to paint it, I was in a bit of a panic with everything that still needed to be done. When the kids waiting at the bus stop asked what happened to my cool yellow paint job, I knew I had plenty of work ahead. Both Melissa and Jon really helped out a ton with all of the work and making this happen. Thank you both!!

After the first practice session, I realized that Road Atlanta was going to take some time to learn. That evening Greg Amy took a few of us on a walk around the track, which was a huge help. Until then, I had no clue just how hilly the track is. Even after the four practice sessions, I kept thinking how nice it would be to have more time out on the track before racing. Qualifying session one was completed and I was in better position then I thought (6 or 7th, can’t remember as I seem to have a problem with those places). I went down to turn one and watched how Greg Amy drove it. So, that’s how you do it! Session 2, starting to push it harder and felt better with how I was doing. The times came in and I knocked almost a second off but still fell back a few places. Shoot!

While on grid for the race, I looked over and saw Sam Moore who I’ve heard so much about. I thought about introducing myself, but figured to save that for later. Little did I know that our cars would take care of the introductions on the first lap. As I saw the green flag, I was able to gain a few places and realized I was in the hunt for this thing. Then there was the incident after the long straight. My wife told me that when Scott Haven saw the car’s condition, he went sprinting off while saying they’re going to black flag him. As I continued on, some smoke came into the car but it didn’t smell like oil or anything else like that. Guess that would be my bumper being dragged around. Scott came back with a big hammer and roll of racers tape; fortunately we didn’t need it. (Thanks again Scott – I do appreciate it.) I could see the leaders but just couldn’t gain any ground on them. Then I saw Chris Albin’s car in my mirror and thought, come on Chris, let’s go! I knew it would be impossible to catch up to the leaders by myself even with the awesome aerodynamics of my car at that time. We didn’t lose any ground on the leaders, but just couldn’t catch up. Once on pit lane I learned that I finished in 7th overall (or so we thought). I was also forewarned that there were two guys talking about a certain yellow Prelude. Ut oh! While at impound to discuss my “7th” place finish, the steward talked to me about the incident. More importantly to me, I was able to talk to Mr. Reynolds and show him the video. Fortunately some of his crew talked to him just before he saw me and gave a different version of the story from what he originally thought/heard. I am also very glad I had video of everything. As he said while talking to me, it is always a good idea to watch the video before talking to another driver! It is really too bad what happened to him; he was driving amazingly.

A little later in the day, Bill “what happened to my steering wheel?” asked if I went off on purpose to get rid of the extra luggage I was caring around. Umm, of course I did. O.k. So I heard Greg Amy’s little devil voice in my head yelling at me that I’m not pushing it hard enough and maybe I went a little beyond in a few times.

The part that really made the trip so great was hanging around with everyone at the track as well as the ride there and back with Greg and Matt. It was nice to finally meet several others of the it.com guys/gals! Oh, then there was also Ray’s pork jerk and the jambalaya from the guys in the other side of the paddock. As my lips were burning from spices Ray used, I kept saying more, more, more!

Thanks again to Gregg and Issaac for the post ARRC celebration dinner. We all really appreciate it.

On a different note, Ray, when asking about VWs were you also including the Golf III and Jetta? If I were considering building a new ITB car (which I’m not), the Golf III would be on my list. More HP and less weight then the Prelude…hmmm. And thank you again for the RA and LRP video. I’ll be sending you a photo you might like.

VW's were the preferred car for many years as it was the overdog in the class while people developed the new cars...many were built and still prove to be very competitive so you will be seeing them for years to come. As said previously the origional hot hatch...

Dave,

I'll try to post some pics of your ITB car during the race.

Congrats to Chris Albin for his win in the pro it race and the enduro(duh) :happy204: !!! Anybody know what happened to Colin h. ?? Looks like he did'nt start the race :(

Dave, remember what I told you: considering "what would Greg do" is more than likely to get you into situations you wish you hadn't, such as waking up in odd locations, fruitless efforts to eradicate world peace, and disturbingly scary missing patches of body hair...

What Dave didn't tell you guys is that he had spectators on the outside of Turn One "oohing", "aahing", and clapping at his ability to navigate the yellow peril sideways up the hill...Dave did a hell of a job, and I'm sorry we didn't pay enough attention to direct him to Tech instead of the paddock. You met your goals, Dave, next time can be yours. - GA

Thanks Greg.

With the tech shed thing; it was totally my fault. Honestly, even if I knew I finished 6th still probably would have forgotten about the ARRC's top six rule since I'm so used to the top three to impound. Oh well, it really doesn't matter.

Dave,
Actually, you were black flagged, but it was a meatball for your dragging bumper cover. It was gone the next lap before they could give you an open black. I've found that the berm in 3 or the outside of 5 can be really helpful in removing dangling body parts.
As for the jambalaya, you should've been down on the skid pad for the real stuff, but I don't want to ruffle any cook's feathers.

Glad you and Chuck got to talk after the race about the incident. He's an alright guy, but had every reason to be pee-oed. From what I saw, several driver errors were made there, as there are in most every collision. So the blame finger should be shared.

IMHO, I was really disappointed at the stewards disregard for safety in combining the ITB/ITC group. I asked repeatedly at the driver's meeting for a split start so that what happened during the race might have been avoided. My requests were rebuffed. Regardless of lap times, for the most part, B cars will out accelerate C cars. And when you seperate strong running B cars that didn't qualify well, with a couple of C cars that scorched the track, then you've just added the pepper to the mix.

This is the ARRC. I can understand mixing groups when they aren't well subscribed. But when you have that many cars racing in a class, they derserve to take the green flag together and race one another for the win. There were fewer IT7 cars than ITC, and they got a seperate start. There was a difference in lap times through the field, but that became null with the full course yellow and they began to move through the field of slower A cars.

Well, I rant too much.



Had the two classes been seperated, the incident at 10 wouldn't have happened.

We were told point-blank that 'whining' to the stewards wasn't going to get us anywhere, which I totally understand. However, after two petitions were passed around, and they still didn't do it, I knew our chances of doing anything in the race were completely gone (our fault entirely for qualifying badly). But it should have been a no-brainer anyway. We have been told that next year it will be in the supps that we will have a split start.

What did make me mad was when a later race was given a split start.

Quote:

---

Had the two classes been seperated, the incident at 10 wouldn't have happened.

---

Maybe, but having ITC / ITB seperated had nothing to do with this incident. Like I said, I'm glad I had video of it and was able to show it to the chief steward as well as Chuck after the race.

I would first like to congradulate Juston and Chris on a flawless race. I would like to thing that if I did not make such big mistakes in the begining of the race, I might of had something for them. I had a great weekend, I think it was the most relaxed ARRC that I have been to. I would like to thank my crew Danny and Leslie, who made the weekend so easy. These to guys are true profesionals!

I would also like to apologize to my brother for the slide job in turn six, but once i removed my head from my rear end, I did not have time for him to run me all over Road Atlanta. If you can not scr*w your family, who can you scr*w?

I also feel bad for Chris Albin, he had a very fast car but the racing gods dealt him a bad hand in qualifing. I think the race would have been a whole lot different if Chris A and Sam did not have problems. It was good seeing you Chris and I am sure you will be ready next year.

It was also good to see the boys from Canada and I am always impressed with how well Derek can wheel a car. I hope everyone had as much fun as I did and I can not wait until next November. PK

I was shocked to see the B AND the C cars together...what possible reason could be given for combining the field??

The times were similar??? All the MORE reason to seperate them! It's the ARRCs for goodness sake!

The track is huge...plenty of room, and it's obvious that they had a second pace car available...

I just don't get it.

My comments based on my "grid walk" before the race....

Peter keane....awesome job...you were "coming" as they say.....it looks like you got seperated early, then started running faster and faster. Peter told me before the event that his Miata was set up better control-wise....if thats the case, you would have given them lots to worry about!

Chris Albin-
wow...what a run..from 21st (?) to 5th! There really should be a "Hard Charger Award!". Chris described to me before the event the issues he had in qualifying, and while I was confused as to the exact problem, I think it meant he drove the session steering with only one hand! I told Dave on grid to expect to see you in his mirrors...

And Dave..great job, considering all that you've been through this year....that car was at a body shop??? What...did they steal the good parts?? Kidding....
Nice drive..excellent job. But you are right, Melissa is the best. Make sure you tile this winter!

Justin Pooles car looked to be driven very well, and I spoke with him the next day. A well put together car for something he started on AFTER he got back form the Runoffs! Wow.

Too bad about Sam..I would have liked to see another marque up there.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by lateapex911@Nov 16 2005, 04:35 AM

And Dave..great job, considering all that you've been through this year....that car was at a body shop??? What...did they steal the good parts?? Kidding....
Nice drive..excellent job. But you are right, Melissa is the best. Make sure you tile this winter!

[snapback]65489[/snapback]

---

Dave, you really did a great job especially considering that this was your first time at Road Atlanta. I think your car really did benefit from Melissa's Holistic Race Prep And Tuning service. How else could it have held together after the thrashing it got on the first lap? :023:
We're expecting a podium from you next year.....

I must congratulate my teammate, Chirs Wikle, on an awesome 2nd place! The number of years he has been up front and had the Atlanta monkey grab him just sucks. So this year, the game plan was bring one car and not both, seemed to work, but I really want to run the sprint race again!

The lap times (save the lap where Justin got the lapper between) were all within .2 EVERY LAP, very impressive!

After the other Accord went off, Peter must have gotten a wiff of VW as he cranked it up and kept it consistent also. At one point I was ready to call on the radio to tell Chris the gap, but it had shrunk since my last measurement and I just couldn't LIE to him. Think he would know the difference between 3 second gap and 1.8??

Also thanks to BSI for another year of putting up with us and giving us GREAT pit stops during the Enduro.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by bobpink@Nov 16 2005, 11:32 AM
ITB and ITC used to have their own groups (see year 2000 results), but the number of ITC cars dwindled to the point where it didn't make sense for them to have their own group at the ARRC. ITB isn't doing too great either compared to the mid-90s. Get the car counts up and let's see if they get their own run group again.

[snapback]65530[/snapback]

---

I don't think folks are surprised they are together, but surprised that a split start wasn't done. Let everyone sort it out early in the race and not have ITB's growning about an ITC car and vice versa. Once we catch traffic we catch traffic...

Quote:

---

Originally posted by lateapex911@Nov 16 2005, 04:19 AM
I was shocked to see the B AND the C cars together...what possible reason could be given for combining the field??

---

ITB and ITC used to have their own groups (see year 2000 results), but the number of ITC cars dwindled to the point where it didn't make sense for them to have their own group at the ARRC. ITB isn't doing too great either compared to the mid-90s. Get the car counts up and let's see if they get their own run group again.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tschwenke@Nov 16 2005, 04:28 PM
I don't think folks are surprised they are together, but surprised that a split start wasn't done. Let everyone sort it out early in the race and not have ITB's growning about an ITC car and vice versa. Once we catch traffic we catch traffic...

[snapback]65533[/snapback]

---

Okay, got ya. I wasn't at the track and missed the point of your post (at work and have to read quickly). Split start has been done in the past and personally would have to agree with you. Can't shed any light on the decision that was made to start as one big group.