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Is anyone running an aluminum radiator in their ITA 240 (SOHC-'89,'90)?
I think I've got a line on a Koyo brand radiator. It's all aluminum, two-row, bolt-in OEM replacement. Does anyone else have recommendations?
On the rotor front: what EXACTLY is the difference between "non-ABS" and "ABS" rotors? Can "ABS" rotors be used on non-ABS cars?
Thanks,
Michael
Ron Davis radiators seem to work great for our cars. just tell them the pipe sizes and it goes right in.
Thanks for the tip Dave. They changed information systems last July, so they lost all the historical data on previous orders.
I've got to send them dimensions and see what they can do.
Michael
I have the Koyo. I wanted something better like a three row Fluidyne or something at first, but those have to be custom made, or altered with different pipes since they didn't make a bolt in for the S13 with a KA motor (only SR20DET).Quote:
Originally posted by handfulz28:
Is anyone running an aluminum radiator in their ITA 240 (SOHC-'89,'90)?
I think I've got a line on a Koyo brand radiator. It's all aluminum, two-row, bolt-in OEM replacement. Does anyone else have recommendations?
I have to say, the Koyo is quite pretty and well made. I don't know for sure yet if the 2 row will be enough cooling. I imagine it will be, but it does get awfully hot in S. Florida.
At $350 or so for the Koyo, it's a bargain.
Michael.
The ABS rotors are a little bigger and a little thicker. The ABS Calipers have a slightly large piston, and the pads are substantially larger (maybe 20-30%). Downside, you must change the spindle and the hub to use these brakes.
Other than the one time I lost a brake duct (at Sebring short course), I have never felt any fade from my brakes. That is why I haven't made the change.
Are you running the February SARRC at Sebring?
Jim
Hey Jim,
My entry is in the mail. I'm supposed to pick up the car from the bodyshop today. I haven't seen it since they painted it, but Juan says it's a nice bright silver.
Thanks for the info on the ABS vs. non-ABS stuff. I was hoping I could get away with just using the rotors if they were the same diameter....guess not.
Are you going to Sebring?
Michael
Hey TBreu007, I see you're in Pompano. Are you racing a 240 also? Shoot me an email and we can talk shop or something.
[email protected]
Michael
The ABS rotors and discs bolt right on. There is no need to change hubs and spindles. I have been racing with them from the start and have had no related problems. The pad area is 14% larger and the disc is better ventilated. You still need to add plenty of ducting. But Jim is right, they don't fade when the system is well cooled.
Man, even on the other side of the world I get to pipe in. Isn't technology great?!
Tristan Smith
Buffalos Southwest Cafe
ITA Nissan 240sx #56
Currently in Amman Jordan, and will be in Kuwait starting on Sunday.
[This message has been edited by Tristan Smith (edited February 14, 2003).]
Oops, sounds like I stand corrected. I bought some of the calipers from a local parts house and tried to bolt them up. It was a no go. Maybe they gave me the wrong ones. Maybe I should try that again.
Tristan, is it as simple as chnaging the caliper AND the caliper mounting bracket which bolts to the spindle
I hope this works, if so, and if I can locate a pair of the brackets, I
may have bigger brakes for Sebring short course...
Jim
Hi Jim,
From what I remember, I simply got a set of the ABS calipers and discs and swapped them right out. I had no issues, so you may have gotten the wrong ones inadvertently. Obviously you have to use them as a set. So hows the racing so far? I know that Rd Atl has it's first race in march. Doubt I will be home, but I am hopeful.
Tristan Smith
Buffalo's Southwest Cafe
ITA Nissan 240sx #56
Hi Jim,
When you get the calipers, get what is called a "loaded" set. That should come with the caliper, all the hardware already in and a set of pads (which you can keep as a emergency set, they may last you a session)and most importantly, the caliper brackets. The brackets are different for the ABS calipers. Once you have those, it should all bolt right up. Obviously you need the ABS discs to make it work. You get about 14% more brake pad area with the ABS. And slighty better cooling in the discs. Hope that helps.
Tristan Smith
Buffalo's Southwest Cafe
ITA Nissan 240sx #56
Hi Jim,
When you get the calipers, get what is called a "loaded" set. That should come with the caliper, all the hardware already in and a set of pads (which you can keep as a emergency set, they may last you a session)and most importantly, the caliper brackets. The brackets are different for the ABS calipers. Once you have those, it should all bolt right up. Obviously you need the ABS discs to make it work. You get about 14% more brake pad area with the ABS. And slighty better cooling in the discs. Hope that helps.
Tristan Smith
Buffalo's Southwest Cafe
ITA Nissan 240sx #56
It does take more than just a set of loaded calipers and new rotors.
I just bolted them to my spindles. The ABS calipers and brackets placed the brakes pads to far out. Only the inner 2/3's of the pad was covering the rotor. Looking at the setup installed, it appears there is room for the rotor to be about 1.5 inches larger in diameter than the new ABS rotors are.
I guess I have to buy new spindles after all.If anyone knows if any NON abs spindles will place the pads in the proper location, let me know. Maybe the later (still S13) spindles were different????..
Jim
Jim, thats odd. I had no issues like that at all. Don't know what to tell you.
Tristan Smith
Buffalo's Southwest Cafe
ITA Nissan 240sx #56
Perhaps if both of you would list the exact year/model/etc. for your cars, someone out here might be able to help shed some light on this.Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan Smith:
Jim, thats odd. I had no issues like that at all. Don't know what to tell you.
My initial guess is that there is a difference between the '89-'90 chassis and the '91-'94 chassis, and perhaps one of you has one and one the other... Give us some details and we'll try to help you out.
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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Auburn, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://www.coloradoscca.org/prodcar/...2f87857465.jpg
Hi Darin,
Jim and I are running the same basic ITA 240sx model. We should have the same equipment. I had no problem with my installation. A simple bolt on from what I remember. If I were anywhere near my car, I could take a look, but I am not. Sorry.
Tristan Smith
Buffalo's Southwest Cafe
ITA Nissan 240sx #56
Shame on me. I bought the aftermarket set and they wouldn't work right. I looked at a factory set of calipers and brackets last saturday and there is an obvious difference. I will return the aftermarket set and let you know what happens...
Jim
Ok gentlemen I have been following this thread for it's duration, My question, is this legal for ITA to change the brakes to something from an ITS car, that is if I read everything right, thanks dave.
I don't have my ITCS handy, but I have the same question. Which years of 240SX are classfied in ITA?? If it's the '89-'90 models, then was ABS avaiable in those years? I believe that ABS was available after '91, but in '91 didn't the car then come with the DE motor, which would make that an ITS car? If the '89-'90 cars didn't come with ABS, but the '91 did, and the years classified in ITA are '89-'91, then I could see maybe an update/backdate rule coming into play, however, that would only apply if the '91 came with both the KA24E and the DE, but the ABS was available on both models...Quote:
Originally posted by dpc:
Ok gentlemen I have been following this thread for it's duration, My question, is this legal for ITA to change the brakes to something from an ITS car, that is if I read everything right, thanks dave.
So, I guess the question boils down to this: Was ABS available on any ITA model 240SX (3-Valve)?? If not, then this is a big no-no the way I read the rules...
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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Auburn, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://www.coloradoscca.org/prodcar/...2f87857465.jpg
OK so here is the run down.
89-94 had Non ABS and ABS. The ABS Caliper and rotor and pads were a little bigger than the none ABS stuff.
95 to Current offer ABS and NONE ABS but the calipers and rotors sizes are the same. These are also the same parts as the 89 to 94 ABS parts. The one difference is the 95 to current SE models are 5 lug. The other difference is the 95 to current have a beefier spindle and bearing in the front.
If anyone is interested in parts for this upgrade I have them all at least 4 or 5 sets of calipers and Brembo O.E. replacement rotors. You can E-mail me for information.
Joe Harlan
Assuming nothing has changed for 2003 (don't have this year's GCR yet), only the '89-'90 240SXs are classed in ITA. As far as ABS brakes, I'm not 100% certain, but assume that since my '90 FSM has the R&R procedure for ABS that they were available in that year. It really wouldn't matter anyway, as the ITCS specifically allows the ABS rotors and calipers on the '89-'90 240SXs.Quote:
Originally posted by Banzai240:
I don't have my ITCS handy, but I have the same question. Which years of 240SX are classfied in ITA??
So, I guess the question boils down to this: Was ABS available on any ITA model 240SX (3-Valve)?? If not, then this is a big no-no the way I read the rules...
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Earl
ITA 240SX in process
Just to confirm what Earl said, the 2003 GCR/ITCS specifically allows the ABS setup for our ITA ('89-90) 240s.
Does Hawk make pads for these? Is it just the same pad as for the '95+?
Hey Jim, after you finally get the right brackets/calipers mounted, you need to start working on a wheelie bar....hahahahahaha
Michael
[This message has been edited by handfulz28 (edited February 25, 2003).]
Hawk blues are available for both ABS & non-ABS cars. Judging by the applications listed on Courtesy Parts' website, the pads that fit the non-ABS S13s also fit the S14s produced through 7/96, while the pads for the ABS S13s fit the S14s produced after 7/96.Quote:
Originally posted by handfulz28:
Does Hawk make pads for these? Is it just the same pad as for the '95+?
I just wish I had known all this before I ordered the new non-ABS rotors/pads! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif
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Earl
ITA 240SX in process
wheelie bars...I haven't even got the nitrous hooked up yet...hahaha(gotta do some other repairs first)
Brake update number 73..
The box of loaded calipers i got last week DID have the right number on it. It did NOT have the right brackets. When i went to return them, I had the parts store pull another of the same number off the shelf. Guess what, they were different. I now have the parts to do the brakes.
Jim
Joe, what's your e-mail address? I am interested in picking up a set for my '92 240.Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Harlan:
OK so here is the run down.
89-94 had Non ABS and ABS. The ABS Caliper and rotor and pads were a little bigger than the none ABS stuff.
95 to Current offer ABS and NONE ABS but the calipers and rotors sizes are the same. These are also the same parts as the 89 to 94 ABS parts. The one difference is the 95 to current SE models are 5 lug. The other difference is the 95 to current have a beefier spindle and bearing in the front.
If anyone is interested in parts for this upgrade I have them all at least 4 or 5 sets of calipers and Brembo O.E. replacement rotors. You can E-mail me for information.
Joe Harlan
Thanks,
Tim
[email protected]
Michael/Tim - Just wanted to follow up on the Koyo radiators, and see how they were working for you guys. After my first track day last Friday (in 90+ degree heat no less) I found that the 240 lives up to its reputation as a hot head, so my first next expense is going to have to be in the cooling dept.Quote:
Originally posted by TBreu007:
I have the Koyo. I wanted something better like a three row Fluidyne or something at first, but those have to be custom made, or altered with different pipes since they didn't make a bolt in for the S13 with a KA motor (only SR20DET).
I have to say, the Koyo is quite pretty and well made. I don't know for sure yet if the 2 row will be enough cooling. I imagine it will be, but it does get awfully hot in S. Florida.
At $350 or so for the Koyo, it's a bargain.
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Earl
ITA 240SX in process
Griffith Radiators also make custom radiators that fit in. From what I remember , they were pretty reasonable, and closer to me (they are in South Carolina). Thats what I have. A double pass. You need to tell them what tubing sizes you want and on what side, but it's another option. In 90 degree heat I run around 210-225.
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Tristan Smith
Buffalo's Southwest Cafe
ITA Nissan 240sx #56
With some careful design work, those temps are easy to achieve. Mine actually runs a little cooler than that. With the current set-up, my water temps are about 180-190 and oil temps are 205-215. My radiator is a big thick two pass aluminum unit, much like the ron davis units. Make sure thatit is installed so that it doesn't allow air to escape around or over it. The oil cooler cannot be mounted to the radiator (zip tie style). It soaks too much heat that way. Hope this helps.
Earl, let me know if you need anymore specifics on anything..
Jim
Thanks Tristan/Jim. From the sounds of it, I wasn't running much hotter the other day than Tristan has been running normally. And even then, it only took a lap or so with the heater blasting to get the temp back into the normal range. Not to mention I was totally stock in the cooling dept., including antifreeze (I know, I know, but I just hadn't gotten around flushing it out yet).
At this point anything that falls into the "drop-in" category becomes instantly attractive, so I'm thinking I'll probably give the Koyo a try. I would hope that, in conjunction with an oil cooler, this should be sufficient to keep the thing from blowing its top.
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Earl
ITA 240SX in process